Guest Taxed Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 >>> However, this is actually good for us....because they think we are so smart to get them huge refunds. That is precisely why I don't like it. Misinformed clients judge us by how much more we can get thim in refunds. That is how they compare us to the competition That is a slippery slope. I really hate when a taxpayer says his brother or friend gets a bigger refund than him and why does he get a small refund? Every time I get a referral and if the first thing they say will you be able to get us more refund, I say only if all the allowed credit/deductions are not reflected in prior returns. I have to explain that the refund is really their money that they deposited with the Govt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcjenkins Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 Sad but true, that's how most see us. Remember back when the IRS 'corrected' the withholding tables, which had a significant excess built in? HRB immediately started advertising to come in and they would help you adjust your withholding FOR FREE! Why? Because they knew if people got less withheld they would not over-withhold = smaller refunds. And that would make their clients unhappy to tax time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MsTabbyKats Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 I always explain this by: The tax is the tax. (emphasized)....and I show them "the line". If you have too much withheld...you get it back. Not enough...you have to pay in. But....the tax doesn't change....no matter how much you have withheld. It's all a personal choice.........you pay sooner or you pay later I also get...."My friend gets blah blah blah.............." and I give the "everyone's circumstances are different". Then I give a brief overview...but end it with "due to privacy issues I cannot tell you exactly what is on your friend's return." When people owe money I tell them they should be happy because it means they made money! It has more to do with us being psychologists.....and determining what's right for each client. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MsTabbyKats Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 Sad but true, that's how most see us. Remember back when the IRS 'corrected' the withholding tables, which had a significant excess built in? HRB immediately started advertising to come in and they would help you adjust your withholding FOR FREE! Why? Because they knew if people got less withheld they would not over-withhold = smaller refunds. And that would make their clients unhappy to tax time. Remember that $400 (I think it was for 2 years) credit a few years ago....and then the refunds went down the next year? And we had to explain why the refund was less even though nothing changed. The IRS can make this so frustrating......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Taxed Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 >>>> It has more to do with us being psychologists.....and determining what's right for each client. That is one function I will not do is play psychologist with my clients. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFinanceWriter Posted September 2, 2013 Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 Back to the original post requesting advice, the statement was made that he wants to file separately. Okay, my advice is to prepare his MFS return. You are not a party to their divorce petition and have no obligation to advise them about the terms therein, such as suggesting filing status or division of the refund. Your obligation is to follow the tax laws. Give the wife written termination of your engagement with her. That removes conflict of interest in proceding with the husband. She doesn't seem to want an engagement with you anyway because she demands MFJ, to which the husband will not consent. You have no alternative other than ignoring the husband's request for an engagement and thus avoid work with both of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcjenkins Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 No one can make anyone else file a joint return against their will, not even a Judge. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 No one can make anyone else file a joint return against their will, not even a Judge. Although once, long ago, with folks I had known for years before I started doing taxes, I scolded BOTH of them so hard they backed down and submitted a return as MFJ. Two years we did that (their case got filed late in year 1), until they were legally divorced. Don't do taxes for either of them any more (both eventually moved away) but both have stayed friendly with me. And both have (separately) thanked me for scolding them into behaving sensibly all those years ago. They got big refunds instead of owing; they both needed car repairs.... filing MFJ ensured both could get to their jobs (plus more)! Very special and rare case; your mileage WILL vary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Taxed Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 >>> I scolded BOTH of them Sometimes I feel like doing the same to a few of my clients! I hate those who will agree with you and then call back later and flip completely. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnH Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 Your comment reminds me of a situation at church several years ago, when the director of our Child Development Center asked my advice about a payroll tax matter. There were only two ways she could handle the matter, one was wrong and the other was correct. I gave her the correct answer, but it involved extra work on her part. A few weeks later, I was speaking with another church member (who was familiar with the situation) when the director of the CDC joined our conversation. She told me she had decided to take the easier route - the one contrary to my advice. Of course she had some very good reasons in her own mind for having done the wrong thing. After she walked away, the person I was originally speaking with asked if it bothered me that she didn't take my advice. I told him the people pay me good money for advice they often don't follow, so why should it bother me if someone fails to follow my advice when it's given freely? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Taxed Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 >>> I told him the people pay me good money for advice they often don't follow, so why should it bother me if someone fails to follow my advice when it's given freely? That is a good way to look at it. But with clients as you know when they mess up inspite of your advice they will look at you to fix the problem. Had they done it the right way to begin with there would be no reason to complain and then have to fix it again. This season I had a client who double deducted their real estate taxes (100% on Sch A and 8829) for 2011. This was done using turbotax that her daughter helped her. As part of the review I suggested we amend 2011 and take care of the additional tax and interest now instead of 3 years from now. She and her husband agreed with me and i started preparing the 1040X. I guess they must have had a family discussion because the next evening she leaves a VM to forget about it?? I was already done with the 1040X, waiting for them to come back and sign? I should have billed her for it but since this was a referral from another good client and it was her first year i ate the loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jklcpa Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 This season I had a client who double deducted their real estate taxes (100% on Sch A and 8829) for 2011. This was done using turbotax that her daughter helped her. As part of the review I suggested we amend 2011 and take care of the additional tax and interest now instead of 3 years from now. She and her husband agreed with me and i started preparing the 1040X. I guess they must have had a family discussion because the next evening she leaves a VM to forget about it?? I was already done with the 1040X, waiting for them to come back and sign? I should have billed her for it but since this was a referral from another good client and it was her first year i ate the loss. I hope you kept a copy of the 1040X, its schedules, and your calculations so that if they receive a notice, you will already have the calculations done. No point in doing the work twice. When I've had these situations where the client refuses to file the correction, I simply put the completed forms or calcs away with a memo stating that it wasn't given to the client or filed with any agency. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Taxed Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 All the work was done except for printing it. Just to save paper I like printing it when the clients are ready to sign. I always put a note in the client notes section of a return with any special situation or special handling because i will forget a year from now. I have a feeling these people are the "gambler" type from my initial interview. They will take their chances and see if they get caught and deal with it then. This year I got into a fairly heated argument with them on Meal and Entertainment expenses and the documentation required and why only 50% is deductible. These guys had in one of the prior returns deducted 100% of a house party they threw to entertain their clients. Both of them are real estate brokers and the husband also flips houses on the side. Though that part of the business has been dormant for a year or two now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 Went to a CPE class last year some time, someone who specialized in complex back-tax issues, tax in bankruptcy issues, etc. Apparently a LOT of his business is repeats; folks who come in every 5-6 years with yet another mess on their hands. One of the folks in the group asked if he didn't get *incredibly* aggravated with these people who obviously do NOT follow advice and end up in hot water time after time. He replied that it did when he first started out. However, he changed his attitude, and now he *looks forward* to "the return of the son of tax problem part 17 the sequel" (my term, not his). The attitude change? Stop thinking of them as "problem clients" and instead see them as "walking annuities!" I am striving to make this change in my head, with sporadic success. lol. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcjenkins Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 Yes, if you know they are the sort that create their own problems, and you know they are not going to change, you can either fire them, or look on it as an opportunity to make a nice high-charge amendment. As long as you charge extra for 'fixing' their mistakes, it should not bother you at all. ;~) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcb39 Posted September 4, 2013 Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 No one can make anyone else file a joint return against their will, not even a Judge. But, the female half of my divorce return was too stubborn to listen to me and the judge had ordered that they split the income for 11 months and each claim their own for one month. It was also in the decree that I had to prepare the return as I had been their preparer for many years. I tried to tell her that didn't matter, but, oh no, she wasn't going against the decree. Now it is coming back to bite us over and over because the IRS just doesn't understand the return, even though WI does CPState. She is definitely fired once this fiasco is over. I imagine I will be subpoenaed again in Oct when she is taking him back to court for contempt. She just won't stop chewing on this bone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcjenkins Posted September 4, 2013 Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 Yeah, I've had a few like that over the years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Taxed Posted September 4, 2013 Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 >> I imagine I will be subpoenaed again in Oct when she is taking him back to court for contempt. Do you bill them for your expenses for this court procedure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcb39 Posted September 4, 2013 Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 >> I imagine I will be subpoenaed again in Oct when she is taking him back to court for contempt. Do you bill them for your expenses for this court procedure? The last time I didn't have to show up at the last minute. "Somebody" sent me a very small check, I think about $18, for my time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Taxed Posted September 4, 2013 Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 I think about $18, for my time. I was expecting them to use the min. wage to figure our time when they have to pay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcb39 Posted September 4, 2013 Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 I think about $18, for my time. I was expecting them to use the min. wage to figure our time when they have to pay? The attorneys don't care. The payment comes out of the client's pocket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcjenkins Posted September 4, 2013 Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 The law in your state sets the fees a 'subpoenaed' witness must be paid in state courts. Varies from state to state Texas I know has a $10 per day fee. NY has $15. In AR, you are entitled to a witness fee calculated at the rate of $30.00 per day for attendance and $0.25 per mile for travel from the witness' residence to the place of the trial or hearing. Generally, if the witness asks for the witness fee at the time of the service of the trial subpoena, the witness fee must be paid at that time. Otherwise, you can pay the witness fee later. So if you are subpoenaed, you should ask for payment at that point. When a witness is served with a federal Subpoena in a Civil Case compelling his or her attendance, the subpoena must accompany a fee for one day's attendance and a mileage fee. If the Federal Government is subpoenaing the witness, "fees or mileage need not be tendered." The attendance fee for Federal subpoenas is governed by and described in 28 USC 1821. Witness fees are $40.00 per day and $.55½ per mile, round trip from the witness' residence to where they must appear. The subpoena must accompany the attendance fee, otherwise the service is invalid. Beginning January 1, 2013, the witness fee for government employees in California has increased from $150.00 to $275.00 per day. This is the fee that must be tendered with service of a subpoena to a qualifying witness listed in California Government Code (“GC”) section 68097.2, including California Highway Patrol, Police, Fire, and certain County & State workers. The bill raising these fees was sponsored by the California Highway Patrol because the $150 witness fee rate was established back in 1986 when costs and salaries were much lower. All fees must be must be paid at the time of service and should be made payable to the agency for which the government employee works. If the cost of the actual appearance is greater than the initial deposit of $275, then the agency will bill for the difference. If the cost of the witness is less than the deposited amount, then the agency will issue a refund. For additional information, click – Legislature bill AB2612 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcb39 Posted September 4, 2013 Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 Sounds like a rip-off to me! In any case, I was surprised to get the $18 for staying home. I hate confrontation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack from Ohio Posted September 4, 2013 Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 Sounds like a rip-off to me! In any case, I was surprised to get the $18 for staying home. I hate confrontation.I hope you have billed your client(s) for all your time in this mess?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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