Computer Problem - Help!

[Tax Prep by Deb]

I hope some one can tell me an easy fix for my computer.

Recently we have had several little power outages. My computer is protected by a very good surge protector, however the problem I'm having is when the power comes back on, my computer restarts but I get the following message:

"Invalid configuration information please run setup program.

Performing automatic IDE configuartion:

Primary master: Disk Drive

Secondary Master: CD-ROM Device

Time of day not set - please run setup program."

It seems to always reset the date back to May of 2003. I think that is probably when the computer was born because I purchased it in June of 2003.

When I click on the time on the taskbar and select internet time there is a note that says I was not able to synchronize and to try again later, but nothing ever sychronizes.

My dad thinks that maybe the lithiam battery needs replaced.

Does anybody out there know if he's right and if not is there an easy fix to this. I can work around this problem as long as I remember to reset everything, but it can sure mess things up that requires dates.

Thanks for any info!

[OldJack]

>>Time of day not set - please run setup program."<<

You probably need to run setup as it suggests and enter the time as the startup configuration has lost the time. To run the setup program you usually hold down a function key during the beginning of the boot process after power on to the computer. The hold down key is different for different computers, but if you watch the quick screen at boot time you will see the key mentioned. Try holding the F2 key.

True, that your lithiam batter is getting old but that is probably not your problem in this case.

[Tax Prep by Deb]

>>Time of day not set - please run setup program."<<

You probably need to run setup as it suggests and enter the time as the startup configuration has lost the time. To run the setup program you usually hold down a function key during the beginning of the boot process after power on to the computer. The hold down key is different for different computers, but if you watch the quick screen at boot time you will see the key mentioned. Try holding the F2 key.

True, that your lithiam batter is getting old but that is probably not your problem in this case.

Thanks OldJack, but I have done that. Each time the power goes off and shuts my computer off I get that same message and have to go through that same process. This problem has just started the last couple of months. In the past the power would go off and my computer would reboot without any problem.

[TAXBILLY]

To prevent the problem in the future invest in a UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply). That way you'll be up and running all the time.

taxbilly

[OldJack]

>>but I have done that. <<

Are you resetting the date or the time as it is saying? And are you resetting within the setup program or after windows disktop has appeared?

[Tax Prep by Deb]

>>but I have done that. <<

Are you resetting the date or the time as it is saying? And are you resetting within the setup program or after windows disktop has appeared?

I've done it both ways. I originally did it the first time it happened by clicking onto the clock on the taskbar and setting it there. The time before this however we set it through the setup program, but it still reset when the power went off. When it says to run the setup program is there anything more to do other than setting the clock? Could it be I'm not going far enough in the setup program?

Thanks for your input!

[GeneInAlabama]

To prevent the problem in the future invest in a UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply). That way you'll be up and running all the time.

taxbilly

I have my main computer on a UPS and it has been a life saver for me. Lightning ran in on my office about 4 weeks ago and damaged several pieces of equipment but my main computer was on a UPS and it is OK. The other equipment were on surge protectors, but it didn't help. My network is still not operating. A technician was out yesterday, and it was operating when he left, but is out again. I'm going to have to get him back out here.

With a UPS, you don't have to worry about losing what you are working on when the power blinks. If I am away from my desk when the power goes off, after a short time, it will automatically save what is open and then shut down before the battery goes down. I couldn't get along without it.

Gene

[redux]

I have my main computer on a UPS and it has been a life saver for me. Lightning ran in on my office about 4 weeks ago and damaged several pieces of equipment but my main computer was on a UPS and it is OK. The other equipment were on surge protectors, but it didn't help. My network is still not operating. A technician was out yesterday, and it was operating when he left, but is out again. I'm going to have to get him back out here.

With a UPS, you don't have to worry about losing what you are working on when the power blinks. If I am away from my desk when the power goes off, after a short time, it will automatically save what is open and then shut down before the battery goes down. I couldn't get along without it.

Gene

My experience has been that most inexpensive surge "protectors" simply SLOW down the cremation of the devices connected to them. No one should ever operate a computer that contains sensitive information without a UPS.

If your simply gaming or doing some other non-critical thing with your computer then it probably makes no difference if it crashes due to a power outage, however it would not be a thing to make your day wonderful if your gaming computer got fried due to power surges, no matter what the source.

Most UPS' have surge protection as well as battery backup. Some UPS manufacturers offer free insurance for the equipment plugged into the UPS, up to $25,000 in some cases. APC is one such company.

[OldJack]

>>is there anything more to do other than setting the clock? Could it be I'm not going far enough in the setup program?<<

After you change the settings are you sure you are selecting save changes with the menu before exit. True it could be nothing has been saved in the setup program as it was wiped out with the power outage. I have to say that sometimes a father knows best. It actually could be that your battery has completely failed and nothing is being saved when you power down or power fails. Therefore, the boot process has no information on the hard disk but is successfully finding the information as it boots. In that case it would not find the date and time which would give you the error you are receiving. You have only a few dollars to loose by replacing the battery. First enter the setup program and copy/print all your settings since you might have to enter them again manually, although with most computers now days the boot process should find the settings automatically. Also, all instructions tell you not to do it, but being very careful not to touch anything but the battery, I have replaced the battery with the computer running.

[Pacun]

If you reboot your PC (warm boot) and you still get the message that the time is not correct on your BIOS, you need to purchase a batter for your CMOS chip (I love to use big words).

If you reboot and your PC ask you for the date, you need a battery. You might also need a BIOS update in case (seldom happens), your firmware is corrupt.

[Tax Prep by Deb]

Thanks to all who are responding.

The problem isn't when I reboot the computer (my date and time stay in tact) it's only when a power failure happens.

As to using the device you recommend I will definitely be looking in to it. I have hesitated using one before because an office where I use to work had one and it never worked properly and thus it seemed like a waste of money to me. I guess I just need to do my homework!

[TAXBILLY]

A good place to start:

http://www.apc.com/index.cfm?isoCountryCode=us

taxbilly

[kcjenkins]

Deb, a UPS is an absolute necessity. And they are much cheaper and better than they used to be. But every time that you are getting a shutdown, your computer is DYING. And it's will go suddenly, and you will be devastated. RUSH down to Office Depot or whatever you have, and buy one TODAY. And then start thinking seriously about getting a new computer, to back up the one you have now. Because every one of those power shutdowns has aged it seriously. And it will not give you much more warning than it is already giving you, with this problem with the clock.

[MAMalody]

There is an "Oklahoma fix" for this...use a laptop. True you would have to turn it off at night...so when you go home at 2 AM it can get 4 hours sleep. Using a laptop, the power can go off and you will have from 60-90 minutes to turn your computer off.

Mike

[Mel in Hawaii]

There is an "Oklahoma fix" for this...use a laptop. True you would have to turn it off at night...so when you go home at 2 AM it can get 4 hours sleep. Using a laptop, the power can go off and you will have from 60-90 minutes to turn your computer off.

Mike

Sorry I haven't been to the board in a while to read, but I agree with Pacun that the cmos battery is toast. The fact that a reboot keeps the date and the power off doesn't indicates that as soon as power to the system is lost (which restart doesn't do) the battery is insufficient to hold the clock chip up.

The good news is that the battery will cost you about $1.20 at the local drug store, maybe 4-5 at Compusa.

I ALWAYS recommend an APC ups, www.apc.com go to their sizing utility and double the minutes you expect to keep working when the power goes out. Don't go for a lower rating, you wil regret it. I also like getting the X models with the double batteries as in my area the power is always going out and there is no guarantee that the battery will get to totally recharge before the next outage.

For systems that I don't put in an APC ups, which is rare, then I use the APC surgearrest power strips. These systems usually aren't ones users are using and the connected equipment is going to go down too and has no transactions going on (such as just a controlling computer to our box sortation equipment). My UPS to power strip ratio is like 99 to 1.

Of course UPS's require a battery every 2 years here, but can last up to 5 if you have very infrequent power disruptions. I don't wait, I just plan on 2 year replacement.

[Gail in Virginia]

Sorry I haven't been to the board in a while to read, but I agree with Pacun that the cmos battery is toast. The fact that a reboot keeps the date and the power off doesn't indicates that as soon as power to the system is lost (which restart doesn't do) the battery is insufficient to hold the clock chip up.

The good news is that the battery will cost you about $1.20 at the local drug store, maybe 4-5 at Compusa.

I ALWAYS recommend an APC ups, www.apc.com go to their sizing utility and double the minutes you expect to keep working when the power goes out. Don't go for a lower rating, you wil regret it. I also like getting the X models with the double batteries as in my area the power is always going out and there is no guarantee that the battery will get to totally recharge before the next outage.

For systems that I don't put in an APC ups, which is rare, then I use the APC surgearrest power strips. These systems usually aren't ones users are using and the connected equipment is going to go down too and has no transactions going on (such as just a controlling computer to our box sortation equipment). My UPS to power strip ratio is like 99 to 1.

Of course UPS's require a battery every 2 years here, but can last up to 5 if you have very infrequent power disruptions. I don't wait, I just plan on 2 year replacement.

I am curious. We use APC's in our office also, and I usually replace the UPS every three years or so. Do you replace the entire UPS, or just the batteries? If the battery, where do you get replacement batteries and does it save any money to replace only the battery?

[OldJack]

Well... I am not against a APC/UPS or whatever you call the thing, but I have used computers (since the 1980's) without one of those things and have never had power failures causing any damage to my computers. Sure you may lose a little current working data if you don't backup/save as you work. In my opinion those backup batteries are just another piece of equipment that is an unnecessary expense as it just sits there doing nothing until it is necessary to replace it. To me that is like hiring an employee to sit and watch you work. I'd rather use the money to go play somewhere with momma. :wub:

[BulldogTom]

Well... I am not against a APC/UPS or whatever you call the thing, but I have used computers (since the 1980's) without one of those things and have never had power failures causing any damage to my computers. Sure you may lose a little current working data if you don't backup/save as you work. In my opinion those backup batteries are just another piece of equipment that is an unnecessary expense as it just sits there doing nothing until it is necessary to replace it. To me that is like hiring an employee to sit and watch you work. I'd rather use the money to go play somewhere with momma.

I like you OldJack, but this time, I think you should reconsider. Your comment seems to me to be the same as saying "I don't have medical insurance because I have not been sick since the 1980's." A UPS is a good insurance policy in my book. Just my humble opinion.

Tom

Lodi, CA

[kcjenkins]

Jack, you may be in an area with unusually stable power, but the rest of us who live where there are even occasional power outages have to take them into account. The truth is that every time a computer which is in use has a sudden loss of power, it does really bad things to the working parts. Since Deb has had numerous such situations, clearly she has a problem that needs to be protected against. So this time, your advice, which is normally very good, really stinks.

[Pacun]

Well. Both Old Jack and Jodi are right.

I live in DC and the electric wires go underground and I have never had a power outrage in the last 20 years I have lived here. I recommend people to purchase UPS all the time, BUT I have never purchased one to use in DC for myself because I do not need it and I feel it is a waste of money.

When I travel to my country it is a different story. One time I went there and I noticed that the electricity went off almost everyday. My friends had a "land phone" that it is a cell phone connected only to the electric outlet without a battery that will hold charge. (I have not seen one of these phones here in the US, which makes me believe that Japan has that market). A lot of times we lost phone conversations and I kept trying to reconnect to no avail. The following day I was informed that the power was interrupted, SO, I paid $120 for a UPS and took it to my country (they are heavy too, and I don't recall if I paid another hundred bucks to the airline for excess baggage). I asked them to connect the TV, VCR, and telephone to the USP. Now, I do not get disconnected and we can talk for the 30 minutes and their TV also will last longer.

This is my theory, you can save the UPS money if (both apply):

1.- You have good data backup habits,

2.- You live in an area where there are few electric outrages.

My two cents.

[OldJack]

Well... I just had a power outage last week on a clear day and for no known reason... my computer still works with no "really bad" things. A loss of power does not damage your computer components, a surge in power when the UPS kicks-in might but then I don't know that. I had no intention of giving advice on UPS when I have no real knowledge about the things. I only offered my experience and stinking opinion. I agree that buying one is like buying insurance, but do you really need the insurance? How about someone telling us how many times their UPS did anything over a period of its lifetime. Maybe I should buy one just to be safe.

[Mel in Hawaii]

I am curious. We use APC's in our office also, and I usually replace the UPS every three years or so. Do you replace the entire UPS, or just the batteries? If the battery, where do you get replacement batteries and does it save any money to replace only the battery?

If you have an APC UPS of modern design, there is a trap door in the bottom where you can access the battery. They don't even come with the battery connected (Federal regulations don't allow them on planes if the batteries are connected) so you have to open this door to connect the wires when you first get it or it won't protect you anyways.

As far as cost to replace. The UPS's that we use most frequently cost about $140 at CompUSA, I pick up the replacement battery at Interstate battery (equivalent but not the same exact part) for $12.50. The same part from APC will cost about $49 plus shipping, but we primarily go the Interstate battery route because shipping is so expensive in the islands since EVERYTHING comes 2nd day Air service as there is no ground service (unless you are shipping a container load of course).

If you are unsure about the UPS, just flip it over and you should see either two silver screws or a sliding plastic panel (depending on if it's the metal or plastic case design ie home/office version). Take the cover off and you should be able to find the specs on the battery. Write down the length/width/voltage/amp hours and call your local battery dealer. Most likely they will have it in stock (if you aren't in a really rural area I guess) as they are the same as what is used in fire protection panels, alarm systems, etc.

Now, for those who say they don't have any problems. Well, when you have an undervoltage or overvoltage situation, your computer takes a hit. I don't care where you live, these events happen and they are not as obvious as when the power goes out completely. Someone hits the button in the elevator and it starts a motor, you will have an undervoltage, the motor stops and you have an overvoltage. Don't have an elevator, do you have a fridge, airconditioning, etc? Large power draws will cause these all day. It doesn't even have to be in your building. This type of damage usually presents itself as just a computer that dies for no reason, a program crashes (memory corruption), CD-rom drives that won't read anymore, hard disks that suddenly decide to hit their heads against the side of the drive, fans that spin faster/slower. I have a power analyzer that if you hooked up to your building, you would be amazed at how many disruptions you have that you don't even notice. Why do I have one? We were constantly having blown computers. Our solution was two things: 1 raise the voltage tap on the power transformer +10% as higher voltage is actually not as damaging to computers as low voltage and 2 put UPS's on the equipment. After I had the utility come and change the tap, we immediately noted that we had fewer issues with non protected equipment, but the UPS's really stopped the failure rates.

Personally I currently live in an area of great power disruptions. We have a plant next door with 14,400 volt service and when they shut off their equipment you can see your monitor get brighter than it should be. We also are at the end of the line, so any heavy usage down the road will draw down the available power on the lines. So our problems are probably at the extreme end, but I have also taken that analyzer down town and was amazed how many alerts the device reported as it was actually more in number, but not as extreme.

[Mel in Hawaii]

Well... I just had a power outage last week on a clear day and for no known reason... my computer still works with no "really bad" things. A loss of power does not damage your computer components, a surge in power when the UPS kicks-in might but then I don't know that. I had no intention of giving advice on UPS when I have no real knowledge about the things. I only offered my experience and stinking opinion. I agree that buying one is like buying insurance, but do you really need the insurance? How about someone telling us how many times their UPS did anything over a period of its lifetime. Maybe I should buy one just to be safe.

Would you include possible overwriting of your FAT table as 'really bad' things? If your hard disk was writing when the power went out it can really mess up your file allocation tables even if it doesn't damage the hardware.

Sorry if I sounded like I was attacking you, you were stating your oppinion, I disagree but will respect your right to choose as we all must mitigate lots of issues. Do I install a fire protection system for my Christmas tree in case it catches on fire? Probably very few people will do so, but should we (my answer no)? It's all based on our tolerance for risk. I have been in the situation where UPS's have paid for themselves in lower failure rates and less service costs (it's not just the computer you know, downtime, shipping, parts, phone calls, software installation/recovery).

[joanmcq]

My last computer fried and the diagnosis was the wiring in my house causing power fluctuations.....and I had a very good surge protector. The advice was to get a laptop which they said dealt with the power problems better. My APC has the red light (for unstable power) lit at all times....so the solution would be either rewire the whole house, or move, or get laptop w/battery backups and surge protectors!

[Mel in Hawaii]

My last computer fried and the diagnosis was the wiring in my house causing power fluctuations.....and I had a very good surge protector. The advice was to get a laptop which they said dealt with the power problems better. My APC has the red light (for unstable power) lit at all times....so the solution would be either rewire the whole house, or move, or get laptop w/battery backups and surge protectors!

The red light indicates one of two things, most likely the first.

First, make sure that there is a ground to the power outlet. Use of a 'cheater' plug that converts the cord from a three prong to a two prong basically means that you have no ground. Some older houses wired by homeowners sometimes connected the neutral wire to both the neutral lug and the ground lug because they had the situation where there were only two wires going to the outlet with a 3 prong outlet. While they are actually eventually going to go to the same point (ground), this is not advisable as it defeats the purpose of having a safety ground and allows current from the neutral wire to go back through the ground lug (shortest path to ground).

Second, the 'hot' and 'neutral' wires in the outlet could be reversed. Once again frequently common when homeowners wire the outlet instead of an electrician (or an electrician who is rushing/tired), they put the black hot wire on the lug for the white neutral wire. Hopefully the ground wire actually exists in this situation.

You can tell which situation you have if you have a 3 prong outlet by going to your hardware store and buying a couple dollar 'tester' that looks like the end of a power cord with 3 leds. It will tell you what's wrong with the outlet.

This should actually be corrected as when there is a surge, the UPS or surge protector will shunt excess power to the ground. If the ground is not there, NEITHER the UPS or Surge protector can actually do any good. In a no ground situation, the surge protector actually just acts as an extension cord with multiple outlets as the Metal Oxide Varistors (MOV's) in the surge protector can't shunt the power to another conductor.