kcjenkins Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Don't the Democrats ever learn? Sorry, but I could not believe what I was hearing and reading this morning. We have a budget crisis, so the Dems say that they "have no choice except to raise taxes". Raise them A LOT, in fact. First of all, the problem is not so much a revenue problem, it's a spending problem. But even if that were not true, it is a simple historical fact that when you raise taxes significantly, revenue goes DOWN. Studies of the effects of the Kennedy tax cuts in the 1960s and of the Reagan tax cuts in the 1980s indicate that tax cuts raise aggregate supply as well as aggregate demand, raising long-run real GDP. The resulting increase in the tax base raised government tax revenue to offset partly the effects of lower tax rates. This does not imply that cutting tax rates will raise government tax revenue (though evidence suggests that past cuts in certain taxes have indeed increased revenue from those taxes). However, the important point is not that a tax cut will raise GDP enough that total tax payments will rise. They may not. The important point is that a tax cut will increase GDP. Does nobody in the Democrat leadership ever study history? Here are just a few links that I'd recommend they read. http://www.i2i.org/main/article.php?article_id=460 [Especially ¶ 5-9] Also of interest to those who support a flat tax, by the way. [¶ 11] http://www.house.gov/jec/fiscal/tx-grwth/r...ct/reagtxct.htm http://www.house.gov/jec/fiscal/tx-grwth/r...ct/reagtxct.htm [Don't miss this one, its short and simple.] OK, let the debate begin. Just, please, keep it polite. We do not all have to agree, but we should strive to be agreeable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxxcpa Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Not only the democrats but the republicans are guilty of running up the deficit which is just as bad. If the government saved for a rainy day instead of spending more that they take in to support welfare and warfare, this country would have a surplus. I agree that raising taxes is not a good idea. Ideally, the government would collect more tax than they spend in good times and less in bad times which is exactly the way an individual must manage his affairs. I try to spend less than I take in, but if some big emergency comes along, I can usually spend some of my savings instead of going deeper into debt or stealing some of my neighbor's money to cover the cost. The government has no savings, so all they can do is steal what they need from the taxpayers or borrow it from the Chinese. Look for the dollar's purchasing power to drop. We will soon look back at $ 4.00 gasoline as the good old days. I remember when it was 30¢ a gallon too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jainen Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 >>exactly the way an individual must manage his affairs<< No, that is not the way an individual does it--at least, not an individual who can print up his own money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunTaxMan Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 So, who is/are the guilty party(ies)? Who voted for the Democratic White House and Congress? I didn't! The solution? Better voting research and voting habits by American citizens. How many conservatives did NOT vote? (I DID vote!) How many liberals DID vote? (I am not in this category - even though I realize I must suffer the consequences of others' votes!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 There's nothing to debate. It is a spending problem. The only thing to debate is whether or not the republican party would be doing any different. Recent history gives us no reason to think so. Yes, the Bush administration gave us 3 major tax cuts, but not without huge increases in federal spending. If you've got a half an hour to spare, here's a video called I.O.U.S.A. (the 30 minute condensed version) that talks about the history of the national debt in the US, and deficit spending. It was made before Obama took office, however, so it looks like there is no shortage of material for a sequel. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_TjBNjc9Bo Oh, and I got an e-mail from Despair Inc the other day about a new t-shirt they're selling. "I helped spend billions to bail out a failing auto-maker, and all I got was this lousy t-shirt" http://site.despair.com/governmentmotors/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elrod Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Poo - Poo ! Let me quote a great American republican...................... " Life is like a box of chocolates ........... Ya never know what your gonna get. " I can still afford cookies....................... Yummy ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Poo - Poo ! Let me quote a great American republican...................... " Life is like a box of chocolates ........... Ya never know what your gonna get. " I can still afford cookies....................... Yummy ! Forest Gump was smarter than the majority of the people who hold public office in this country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Forest Gump was smarter than the majority of the people who hold public office in this country. He had way more common sense, for sure. And always took personal responsibility for his actions. I'd take a congress (federal and all states) full of Forrest Gump's over the gaggle of jackals, thieves, and power-hungry self-serving scum in office now, in a heartbeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcjenkins Posted June 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 I agree, Cathrine. I think we all need to vote out anyone who has been in the same office for more than 12 years, as well as a number of those who have been there less. Even the best get totally out of touch with the "real world" if they stay in DC too long. New broom, and all that..... What I would not give for term limits on Federal office!!!! I've stopped thinking of myself as a Republican, now, if asked, I just say I'm a Conservative. The Republicans used to be the party of the rich, and the Dem's were the party of the poor. Then, they gradually switched sides, and today the Dem's are the party of the rich, IMHO. But neither party is listening to the ordinary people who keep this country running. And they won't. as long as the majority don't even bother to vote, and those who do don't pay attention to what the people they elect DO, only to what they SAY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jainen Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 >>I've stopped thinking of myself as a Republican<< It's hard being a conservative these days. At least we liberals can fall back on our old standby, cynical negativity. But you guys have to try to find some kind of consistent way to look forward, and the field is pretty bare. Both major parties have joined all the smaller parties in pushing personality cults, with honest political theory reduced to empty slogans. It's not like it used to be, when [...fill in favorite name...] ran things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxxcpa Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 THE GRASSHOPPER AND THE ANT MODERN VERSION The ant works hard, in the withering heat, all summer long. He builds his house and stores supplies for the winter. The grasshopper thinks that the ant is a fool. He laughs, dances and plays the summer away, preparing nothing for the coming winter. Winter comes, the ant is safe and warm. The shivering grasshopper calls a press conference and demands to know why the ant should be allowed to be warm and fed, while others are cold and starving! CBS, NBC, ABC & CNN show up to provide pictures of shivering grasshoppers, next to a video of an ant in his comfortable home, with a table filled with food. America is stunned by the sharp contrast! How can this be, that in a country of such wealth, this poor grasshopper is allowed to suffer this way? Kermit the Frog appears on Oprah, with the grasshopper. Everyone cries when they sing "It's Not Easy Being Green". Jesse Jackson stages a demonstration in front of the ant's house, where the news stations film the group singing "We Shall Overcome". Jesse then has the group pray for the grasshopper's sake, and reminds the group to contribute to his group, so that he can "continue the fight" for grasshoppers, everywhere! Ted Kennedy & John Kerry exclaim, in an interview with Tom Brokaw, that the ant has gotten rich, off the back of the poor grasshopper! Both call for an immediate tax hike, to make the ant pay "his fair share"! Finally, the EEOC drafts the "Economic Equity For Grasshoppers Act", retroactive to the beginning of the summer. The ant is fined for failing to hire the proportionate number of green bugs and, having nothing left to pay his retroactive taxes, his house is confiscated by the government. Hillary Clinton gets her old law firm to represent the grasshopper, in a defamation suit against the ant. The case is tried in federal court, with a jury comprised of unemployed welfare recipients. Surprise! The ant loses the case! The story ends, as we see the grasshopper finishing up the last bits of the ant's food, while the government house he lives in (which happens to be the ant's old house) crumbles around him, due to lack of maintenance! The ant has disappeared in the snow. The grasshopper is found, dead, in a drug-related incident. The house, now abandoned, is taken over by a gang of spiders, who terrorize this once-peaceful neighborhood. The moral of this version? Don't vote for Democrats or liberals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 THE GRASSHOPPER AND THE ANT MODERN VERSION <snip> The moral of this version? Don't vote for Democrats or liberals. I love it! The only quarrel I have is that the Republicans have been almost as bad for many years now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joanmcq Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 gimme a break...that one has been going around for years and years and the names have just been updated. More like this....the grasshopper spends the winter in tent city in Sacramento. Oprah shows up and does a story on the tent city, so the city opens a shelter for two months for 50 of the grasshoppers but the other 250 are SOL. Problem apparently goes away since the grasshoppers are back to camping in the bushes where they hope no one will find them, since every time they are found, all of their possessions are thrown away. The ant needs to have a biopsy, but even though it is benign, can't get health insurance anymore. The ant's next biopsy isn't benign and has to declare bankruptcy due to the medical bills. With her savings gone, she joins the grasshopper camping on the river bank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxxcpa Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 gimme a break...that one has been going around for years and years and the names have just been updated. More like this....the grasshopper spends the winter in tent city in Sacramento. Oprah shows up and does a story on the tent city, so the city opens a shelter for two months for 50 of the grasshoppers but the other 250 are SOL. Problem apparently goes away since the grasshoppers are back to camping in the bushes where they hope no one will find them, since every time they are found, all of their possessions are thrown away. The ant needs to have a biopsy, but even though it is benign, can't get health insurance anymore. The ant's next biopsy isn't benign and has to declare bankruptcy due to the medical bills. With her savings gone, she joins the grasshopper camping on the river bank. The moral to that story is that you will never get out of this world alive. I completely agree that you cannot trust the Republicans any more than you can trust Democrats. Both want their hands in your pockets up to their elbow. Democrats want to spend it all on welfare. Republicans prefer to spend it on warfare, whether provoked or unprovked. Spending is the name of the game. You can vote for the lesser of two evils, but evil is still evil. The liberal philosophy is based on the idea that everyone should live in comfort whether they produce or not and whether the rest of us can afford it or not. While most of us would agree that some degree of government help is desirable in some cases, there are limits to what we can afford. If Bill Gates can afford a Mercedes and all I can afford is an old pick-up truck, one school of thought is that Bill Gates should be taxed to the point that all he can afford is maybe a new pick-up truck once every ten years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jainen Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 >>The liberal philosophy is based on the idea that everyone should live in comfort whether they produce or not<< Don't be ridiculous. Neither party wants undeserved handouts, and both parties endorse a strong social safety net. The most important liberal philosophy is right to WORK, which happens to be the biggest argument in Washington this morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack from Ohio Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 >>The liberal philosophy is based on the idea that everyone should live in comfort whether they produce or not<< Don't be ridiculous. Neither party wants undeserved handouts, and both parties endorse a strong social safety net. The most important liberal philosophy is right to WORK, which happens to be the biggest argument in Washington this morning. Can you say $Billion bailouts??? :scratch_head: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAXBILLY Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 Are you referring to the Republican bailouts (AIG, Bank Of America, etc) or the Democratic bailouts? Seems like both parties have a hand in this. taxbilly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janitor Bob Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 Just Remember.....Monkeys wear plaid too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jainen Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 >>Can you say $Billion bailouts??? << Yes I can, and without winking or scratching my head. The companies receiving bailouts are considered to deserve them by reason of their essential role in the national economy. [ Wink, wink, scratch scratch] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxxcpa Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 >>The liberal philosophy is based on the idea that everyone should live in comfort whether they produce or not<< Don't be ridiculous. Neither party wants undeserved handouts, and both parties endorse a strong social safety net. The most important liberal philosophy is right to WORK, which happens to be the biggest argument in Washington this morning. Both parties want handouts, deserved or undeserved. Both parties and both liberals and conservatives support the right to work, but some politicians also support the right to avoid work by allowing generations to live on handouts. Conservatives tend to support the obligation to work somewhat while liberals find all kinds of reasons/excuses why the non-workers are unemployed. Redistribution of wealth is seen by some as a guiding principal. Extremes on both the liberal and conservative viewpoints seem to be gaining ground in the two major parties. Republicans want to enforce their religious beliefs and similar social issues and are more concerned with that aspect of government than in dealing with the real issues. Democrats are focused on gay rights and other similar social issues which have little to do with running the country. Politicians are more concerned with whether abortions should be legal than with whether we should invade Iraq or bail out California. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack from Ohio Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 >>Can you say $Billion bailouts??? << Yes I can, and without winking or scratching my head. The companies receiving bailouts are considered to deserve them by reason of their essential role in the national economy. [ Wink, wink, scratch scratch] Who established the definition of "deserve?" I'm just askin.... :dunno: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jainen Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 >>whether we should invade Iraq or bail out California. << You mean I got it mixed up AGAIN? I thought it was whether we should invade California or bail out Iraq. Shucks, we'll probably just invade everybody and bail out everybody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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