ATXers community feedback via Suggestion Box

[Gail in Virginia]

Good Point!

[redux]

I didn't start a new topic for this post - it's just a comment and seems to fit generally into the original title, although it doesn't follow the subject of the last few posts. Nevertheless...

Maybe I'm not doing the math right, but I seem to remember that it was suggested that there were only about 100 or so uses of the original ATX Community. I can't remember where this number came from - maybe it was an estimate of only the number of posters.

Anyhow, I notice that the number of users of this Community is now approaching 180. I'd say that's a positive growth curve, especially considering that this Community is growing entirely by word of mouth.

My take on the old ATX board was that there was perhaps 200 or so users each year. What I noticed over the years was that there was a core of maybe 50 - 75 or so year-to-year users and the rest of the current year users were new as older ones dropped out, or at least quit posting. I would imagine that many quit posting but lurked reading posts daily. It may be they quit posting because of the bullies that would berate them in sarcastic ways, or because they were tired of being treated as children and being mothered.

When I visited ATX in the summer of 2006 I was discussing the board with our "tour" guide and he indicated that there were many more (in the hundreds) registered users of the forum than we knew about. In fact he was surprised that I suggested there were only a 100 or so users.

I believe this can be a very productive forum to discuss tax issues, if not program issues, since we may all be using different software. It certainly has a good beginning, and If we can keep the bullies from being so...it'll be a plus.

[JohnH]

Bob:

I totally agree on the idea of keeping the tone of this Community positiive.

Seems to me that anyone who bought their ATX software had a right to post on that forum, and the company pretty much allowed anything to be said which wasn't an egregious violation of their rules. But that doesn't need to be the case here - the bullies can be dealt with. This is an independent community, supported by voluntary payments, and it seems reasonable that anything the moderators find objectionable should be subject to being deleted, without question or recourse by the poster. I trust KC and erc's judgement on those matters.

[mcb39]

John.....all good points. BTW, I had to look "egregious" up as I pride myself on the use of language. I also pride myself on the fact that I look things up that I don't know....always to learn. Did you notice that the new posters still continue to arrive. That is such a positive thing. erc,; the Pied Piper of forumland.. Pretty good day today in spite of sore throat. One tax return came in and one check from different directions. So life goes on and we survive. Ordered myself a new 2G flash drive and a spare power adapter for laptop. Just a little reward for me. Also am catching up on Husband's bookkeeping and filed his license renewal for auto dealership. One step at a time back to sanity.! :rolleyes:

[kcjenkins]

KC it is good to see you here. I have missed your missives.

What is a link to your reference software research discussion lines/

Mike

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TaxProExchange/

Please feel free to join us there, we have hundreds of ATXers already there.

KC

[kcjenkins]

I understand your concern. If the majority of people on this forum are using any one of a number of "other" programs, the "program" help would be affected. While the program help would be affected, the IRC technical help is still available since it is not affected by what software you may be using.

Moreover, the camaraderie that we have would still be in effect and available. Perhaps we could get erc to change the name of this forum to XATXers.

Well, Bob, a lot of us have not decided yet whether or not we will be 'ex' ATXers or not. I think as the time passes and tempers cool, a lot of us are still finding that there is no other software that gives us as much, for the price, and are looking hard at continuing with ATX for at least one more year.

KC

[redux]

Well, Bob, a lot of us have not decided yet whether or not we will be 'ex' ATXers or not. I think as the time passes and tempers cool, a lot of us are still finding that there is no other software that gives us as much, for the price, and are looking hard at continuing with ATX for at least one more year.

KC

Well KC, you may well be right. I too am among the undecided. I'm not into shooting myself in the foot for spite. My comment, about changing the name of this forum, was made somewhat tongue-in cheek and had more to do with a statement by others to the effect that they wondered how we could maintain "Program" help when so many of us may not be using the same programs. My purpose in the statement was to provide some assurance that the tax law help would remain unchanged here even if the program help may not remain because of the various software in use.

The following scenario is NOT fiction, it is the reality of life and it is something we ALL need to consider before we make a choice on “07” software. I’m not a magician either, so I can’t suggest how we can go about evaluating the “07” ATX software without purchasing it, but we need to use our respective “gut” feelings and go from there.

Company #1 produces an outstanding tax product that has many hidden features and has all the not-so-hidden bells and whistles that are apparent to its user customers. Company #1 has been in business for generations and produces abundant research tools for many professions, including tax law. Their software has few problems for which they maintain excellent support at convenient hours. The remarkable downside to this company’s product, however, is its price.

Enter Company #2. Company #2 begins its existence on a shoestring with many problems in nearly all areas. Company #2 has but a 15 year history. In that time, however, the product improvements, customer relations, reliability, support, and research tools has made their product one of top quality while maintaining a reasonable price. As the quality of Company #2’s product improves and approaches that of Company #1’s product but is offered at 1/3 the price of Company #1’s product, it is viewed as, and has become a threat to, Company #1.

Company #1 makes a buyout offer to Company #2 that Company #2 can’t refuse, and the change of regime happens.

The first thing that comes to mind for a user of Company #2’s software, is “Why did Company #1 acquire Company #2? The next consideration is “what will change?” And lastly, the all time favorite question, “If a company has two products that are very similar in quality, why would they attempt to sell one product for 1/3 of the price of the other?

The obvious answer for the acquisition is to suppress competition. If the two pieces of software (now owned by a single company) are similar except in price, what would be the next business decision for Company #1?

1. Would it be to lower the price of their previous “flagship” software?

2. Would it be to increase the price of the “acquired” software?

3. Would it be to eliminate features of the “acquired” software to make it less appealing while maintaining its lower price?

4. Would it be to ultimately eliminate the “two” product line in favor of the “flagship” product, at the higher price, of course?

So, this is intended simply as food for thought to consider before one jumps ship or renews with their present vendor. Business is just that, the profit motive is alive an well here, even if customer relations are non-existent. One very foolish move by the acquisition company has destroyed a long time relationship. The removal of the community is in and of itself, inconsequential to the quality of the software product. That said, however, the method and manner of the community’s removal is demonstrative of an attitude that may well be something that “07” purchasers and beyond, will have to contend with in their relationship with Company #1, and/or its support. I’m not sure that I’m willing to do that. I suggest that if Company #1,s foolish move had not taken place, this discussion wouldn’t exist either. The entire acquisition would have had about as much attention and consideration to Company #2’s users as did the Kleinrock acquisition of ATX.

[joanmcq]

When I worked for a big firm, I used Profx and even seven years ago handled states far better than ATX did even last year. When I started with ATX, CA depreciation had to be manually entered in the CA form. For K-1s, state differences are still manually entered. Profx was a no-brainer in these situations. With the states ATX still does not open forms as needed. But the difference in price more than made up for the thinking and cross-checking I have to do. And when I suggested ATX handle CA depreciation two years ago, I noticed immediately that the program was upgraded in this respect.

the point is that the programs are vastly different. Why CCH would want to buy Kleinrock, I don't know, since it does seem to duplicate its research product. I'm hoping that ATX won't be changed much since I am tending towards buying the program for next year.

[TAXBILLY]

What really got to me when ATX pulled the plug on the community is the timing and how they didn't even mention it on their learning center even though they knew their customers were upset about it.

taxbilly

[Mel in Hawaii]

...When ATX was founded, Glynn and William built the business ...

Hmm... When ATX was founded it was two brothers, Glynn in Maine and Steve in New York. Then Yvette in NY, Joanne and Myself in Maine... Dennis, William and so on. Hate to say I didn't know about Yvette for a long time since I only communicated with Steve on the phone, but the rest of the early crew I knew very well.

I don't think ATX is anywhere near the same company it once was. I was so SAD when Glynn moved on as he had the integrity that I could only dream of. Glynn was a hard worker, believed in treating people fairly and with trust. I couldn't speak higher of any man than I can of Glynn. I had a visit from Steve not too long ago and I am really not sure if he was still with the company or not.

[redux]

Hmm... When ATX was founded it was two brothers, Glynn in Maine and Steve in New York. Then Yvette in NY, Joanne and Myself in Maine... Dennis, William and so on. Hate to say I didn't know about Yvette for a long time since I only communicated with Steve on the phone, but the rest of the early crew I knew very well.

I don't think ATX is anywhere near the same company it once was. I was so SAD when Glynn moved on as he had the integrity that I could only dream of. Glynn was a hard worker, believed in treating people fairly and with trust. I couldn't speak higher of any man than I can of Glynn. I had a visit from Steve not too long ago and I am really not sure if he was still with the company or not.

Melvin, Please accept my apology. I had no intention of slighting you or any other founding employee. The company was successful and integrity laden due to all of you folks. I totally agree, however, that the integrity of a company mirrors that of the leadership.

You were unknown to me as were some others when I became aware of ATX. I did know that the company was started by the two brothers, it's just that Glynn was more visible to the customers, as was William.

Again, I apologize for leaving you out in my accolades.

(just an afterthought, it must have been quite an interesting transition for you going from Caribou to Hawaii)

[Mel in Hawaii]

I didn't take 'offense' but I thought you were implying Glynn and William were the brothers who built the company. William has ALWAYS been there for the customers since he started in technical support (although he has worn many hats, just like most of the early people). I can remember this one incident of him carrying around a piece of paper with a customer who had a problem that no one could solve. He carried it around asking everyone for their take on the call until eventually we tried enough things that we finally found the answer (If I remember correctly it was a conflict with a 'windows based printer' corrupting the return data during printing so it showed correctly UNTIL we printed). He does his best to champion the customer's problems to the very end.

I left ATX in 1999 when my pregnant wife decided that she couldn't handle the 40 degree below zero weather. She was from Honolulu, hence our move to warmer territory. If you owned the program before 1999, I talked to a majority of the users who called technical support. Not saying I took the majority of the calls, just that I got to talk to most of the people who WERE calling the support lines at one point or another. Many of the customers I could recognise by their voice on the phone. But, if you came on board after 1998, I probably wasn't talking on the phone much, just when things got really busy or when the problem couldn't be solved by the normal tech guys.

[redux]

I didn't take 'offense' but I thought you were implying Glynn and William were the brothers who built the company. William has ALWAYS been there for the customers since he started in technical support (although he has worn many hats, just like most of the early people). I can remember this one incident of him carrying around a piece of paper with a customer who had a problem that no one could solve. He carried it around asking everyone for their take on the call until eventually we tried enough things that we finally found the answer (If I remember correctly it was a conflict with a 'windows based printer' corrupting the return data during printing so it showed correctly UNTIL we printed). He does his best to champion the customer's problems to the very end.

I left ATX in 1999 when my pregnant wife decided that she couldn't handle the 40 degree below zero weather. She was from Honolulu, hence our move to warmer territory. If you owned the program before 1999, I talked to a majority of the users who called technical support. Not saying I took the majority of the calls, just that I got to talk to most of the people who WERE calling the support lines at one point or another. Many of the customers I could recognise by their voice on the phone. But, if you came on board after 1998, I probably wasn't talking on the phone much, just when things got really busy or when the problem couldn't be solved by the normal tech guys.

I first bought ATX in 1998. I don't remember ever calling support, but if I did, we no doubt talked, although I'm sorry to say that I don't remember. Not remembering as much as you'd like is included in the price for getting older. It is a small price to pay, however, when you consider the alternative to getting older.

As for William, I never confused him as a company founder or one of the brothers. I did know, however, that he was a very early employee. At one point he talked about his first desk being a door placed flat on milk crates.

[taxtrio]

I agree that we all fee betrayed by ATX. But after many years working for HRB -- I learned one

thing. You cannot trust what a corporation promises. "Sorry, that wasn't written in stone you know", and "trust me, this new pay plan is an enhanced compensation plan". there way of saying -- here comes another pay cut!

No matter what company you buy your software from, you can't trust them that everything will stay the way you like it.

I'm not a pessimist.... just an Optimist with experience.

So I will use ATX for as long as it's price and features suit me and my needs. Trust them?

Of course not, not any more than I will any other corporation.

Long ago someone told me that people are under the impression that GM is in the business of making Cars... Not true! Gm is in the business of making money... just like any other corporation.

They are all going to get a new CEO etc. with a stupid idea, trying to make a name for themselves.

So whatever software you use, watch your back, and keep your options open.

Just my thoughts as an Optimist with experience.

[GeneInAlabama]

I agree that we all fee betrayed by ATX. But after many years working for HRB -- I learned one

thing. You cannot trust what a corporation promises. "Sorry, that wasn't written in stone you know", and "trust me, this new pay plan is an enhanced compensation plan". there way of saying -- here comes another pay cut!

No matter what company you buy your software from, you can't trust them that everything will stay the way you like it.

I'm not a pessimist.... just an Optimist with experience.

So I will use ATX for as long as it's price and features suit me and my needs. Trust them?

Of course not, not any more than I will any other corporation.

Long ago someone told me that people are under the impression that GM is in the business of making Cars... Not true! Gm is in the business of making money... just like any other corporation.

They are all going to get a new CEO etc. with a stupid idea, trying to make a name for themselves.

So whatever software you use, watch your back, and keep your options open.

Just my thoughts as an Optimist with experience.

Taxtrio, I believe you are exactly right.

Gene

[JohnH]

I've remained in a state of confusion about the exact combination of products I use from ATX. I have been buying the ATX1040 Office package plus the Total Kleinrock Office. The price for 2007 before discounts & freight is $595 for ATX1040 plus $699 for TKO, for a total price of $1,363. This combination appears to give me the same features as the Total Tax Office package, which costs $1,595 before discounts & freight.

I tried on a couple of occasions to get the ATX sales dept to explain the difference to me, but nobody was able to do so. Since the package met my needs & I got busy, I quit asking. Does anyone on this forum know what I may be giving up for the $232 savings?

[joanmcq]

I'm betting its all the returns that aren't 1040s.

[SCL]

I'm betting its all the returns that aren't 1040s.

i agree - all fed business returns and all state business returns. plus non w2/1099 & 940/941 efiling over 100 that is included in 1040 office (i know you are a reluctant efiler so this may not matter). plus some misc research - krock all state & business quick answer and all state tax expert. plus some acctg sofware - atx trial bal and doc manager (whatever they are). go to atx products for breakdown. hope this helps a little.

[joanmcq]

w-2 and 1099 efileing is not included in 1040 office. So that's part of the TTO package too.

[JohnH]

You're right - I'm a paper filer, so the efile limits aren't a big issue for me, at least until I'm forced by the govenment into becoming an eflinger. I do have the complete Zillion forms as a part of the TKO package, all states, all forms (including W2, 1099, 941, etc.) , and all interactive. I also have access to all the research on the ATX site. I'm sure there's something I'm missing, but can't figure out if it's important or even worth the difference.

Before I switched everything to ATX a couple of years ago, I was using Creative Solutions for 1040 work and ATX for business returns. Saved quite a chunk by migrating over to ATX for the 1040 work without giving up much. I'm not even sure how I would up with this combination rather than TTO, but it worked for me and it was well worth the cost.

Like the rest of you, I'm getting their renewal offers. I don't intend to jump at any of the early renewals, but am trying to figure out what I'd likely need from ATX (if anything) if I switched to someone else. This is the year I think it will be worth foregoing the early discount to avoid making a wrong decision. At the least, I plan to get an extended time to cancel without penalty. If their sales dept can't offer that concession, I'll probably bail out on them anyhow. Come February 1, everything has to be right or else a mistake can turn into a huge headache.