NOT "sticking with ATX"

[TaxCPANY]

Seeking *serious* discussion of alternatives to ATX -- i.e., absent 'NT' & re-re-vents of ATX's shortcomings this season. So far, the only 'real' review I've found is something called "2012 tax programs" in CPA Journal that reviews 2011 programs. No good.

When I worked for "Big" firms, I used Go System, ProFX and Lacerte -- and, those indeed worked well. How do those measure up, TODAY? (I opened my own firm using Lacerte, and went to ATX only once Intuit's purchase doubled Lacerte's prices.) ATX's 2012 debacle has cost me so much that I must *upgrade,* for almost whatever it costs; so, for one thing, I would reconsider going back to Lacerte.

I need a reliable program that can handle clients in many states and *countries,* for every kind of return except excise and 'specialty' taxes -- e.g., gas, alcohol, etc. For that & other reasons, Drake (and lesser programs) are non-starters.

Grateful thanks in advance for your help in getting down to the best, few programs there are, out there. TaxCPANY

[Randall]

TaxCPANY, it does sound like you'll need one of the high end programs. By high end, I mean top price but also supposedly with that price, the capability to do a lot more than ATX offered or even Drake. For me, that high price is out of the question for my needs. I've had the top price full package from ATX so Drake's price seems to be in that range. From JohnH's comments, Drake seems to be the one but I'll wait awhile for now. Some have commented on Drake's data base or interface or being DOS, so I'm not sure if they'll need some major overhaul. I don't know much about those specific program characteristics. I just have to rely on what I see in the program and how it functions.

[joelgilb]

TaxCPANY, it does sound like you'll need one of the high end programs. By high end, I mean top price but also supposedly with that price, the capability to do a lot more than ATX offered or even Drake. For me, that high price is out of the question for my needs. I've had the top price full package from ATX so Drake's price seems to be in that range. From JohnH's comments, Drake seems to be the one but I'll wait awhile for now. Some have commented on Drake's data base or interface or being DOS, so I'm not sure if they'll need some major overhaul. I don't know much about those specific program characteristics. I just have to rely on what I see in the program and how it functions.

First, let me say that Drake is not DOS based anymore, but a Windows product that is input/data screen based. It also has a Forms based input screen, simply to help you find Drakes input screens. I highly doubt that Drake will do a major overhaul to add Forms Based, as its current user base prefers the input based method. With a user base around the same size as the old ATX, and probably more now with all the new users from ATX, TRX, TaxWorks and even TaxWise, it would not be in the best interests of Drake to do what these other software companies have done.

Drake has a fast and fully functional product, with little need to do more than upgrade and enhance it. Drake has been around 34 years and I believe understands how to progress its product into the future with enhancements not a major rewrite. Further, the input/data based method, is where Drake gets its speed from. Its current base of users consistently indicate thhat they do not want upgrades and enhancements that destroy the speed of Drake. So, I don't see Drake moving from the input/data based method at any time in the future.

What ATX has that is missing from Drake is missing from virtually every other tax software program - the massive forms that ATX offers. This though is available from several other venders, like SuperForms, Greatland, Laser Librarian, Intuit and CFS (I think CFS actually licenses one of the others though).

ATX was never a high end package, but a package that was unique prior to 2012. With prior version of ATX we had the ability to almost create our own custom tax software, changing calcs, adding our own forms, creating custom spreadsheets, etc. Not any more though. Now ATX is just like every other player out there (except for the extra forms), but slower than almost all it's competition.

Now that said, I am not venting or re-re-venting ATX's shortcomings. What I am pointing out is that your choices for new software are wide open. Almost every software vendor will provide a copy or demo of its 2012 package for you to try out. Get them and test them.

Like JohnH, and JKLCPA and Ari, (and a few others here) I chose to switch to Drake mid-season (02-15-13 to be exact) and had a SHORT learning curve. My experience this year was similar to theirs, with blazing fast software, incredible technical support, and a an incredible forum that also went the extra mile to help me.

I have friends that use Intuit's ProSeries and are thrilled with it. Currently ProSeries with give you a discounted price for 5 years, which is similar to ATX's full MAX package price.

I also want to add that in season this year I found the time to test 8 different software products till I settled on Drake. Yes I rushed the tests, but I still got through them in Season! You should have plenty of time to test various software, file extensions etc and I would strongly recommend you do so, as all software represent some compromise to how we prepare returns.

[joelgilb]

Oh and I guess I didn't really list the alternatives to ATX, so here is the list of the programs I tested (alphabetically):

Drake

Intuit ProSeries

Intuit Lacerte

QRTaxPro

TaxAct

TaxExact

TaxSlayer Pro

TaxWise (CCH) (also Ultimate Tax is a reseller of Taxwise at a substantially reduced price) CCH even gave me this one for free and I hated it so much after testing it decided to buy Drake

Taxworks, by RedGear (gone now with its recent sale to Thompson)

UltraTax CS by Thomson Reuter (high end but too high priced for me)

In a previous year I had also tested ProSystem FX (CCH high end but too high priced for me)

Note I bolded those that I remember I liked, and Italicized those I remember I didn't like, and left thos in normal text that I just don't remember well enough to comment on.

[kcjenkins]

Good review, Joel, very helpful. I also expect that the Drake family, who still owns Drake software, is smart enough to look at the field and realize that they are ideally placed to dominate the lower-to-mid price range market, if they don't do anything but continue to offer a solid product at a fair price, with excellent service. I'd advise them, if I were in a position to do so, to keep where they are, but consider trying to get some sort of bundling deal with one of the good forms programs. That would make them a killer prospect for those of us who hung on so long to ATX because of their wonderful range of forms.

[cheering]

NY,

it seems like going back to Lacerte may be the best option for you. just my opinion.

i used Lacerte [for several years], and it was definately a Cadillac, and so is UltraTax [used for a few years too],

they're both top-of-the-line for complex returns [i used to work in a big firm].

Drake is very similar in it's concept, [and i am buying Drake], but, it sounds way too limited for your complexity.

i haven't used Drake much, but i get it already, so that probably leaves you with Lacerte and UltraTax,

and you should most likely go with Lacerte because you're already familiar, and your time is valuable too,

probably alot more valuable than learning to deal with another software package.

best of luck to you,

-cg

[Lion EA]

When I was shopping, I realized that the less expensive software lacked features I needed for my clientele and for the way I work. I then re-demo'ed the high end products: ProSystem fx, Ultra Tax, and Lacerte. Lacerte worked less well for me; I think their support was less responsive, also. I settled on Pro fx as the best and with the best support, and then negotiated a price I could live with. The jump in price from ProSeries, for instance, to Pro fx was less than four extra typical returns for me (and from ATX to Pro fx, less than eight). And, the extra speed I gained in importing K-1s, G/L, Kiddy Tax, multi-states, no wait for support, and on and on, gave me plenty of time to prepare many more than four or eight or ten extra returns and have even better profit than I would've had with a lower end software.

Now is the time to demo everything out there. We all work and think differently, so what matters most is if the software has the features you want, works the way you do. You're the one to prioritize. (I'm a sole proprietor, so support was very important to me, probably number one on my list or at least a close second behind reliability, but that's tied to support; but it would be less important for a younger more technically oriented person or a firm with a techie on staff.) List your priorities, demo all the software you think might work for you, and THEN negotiate the best price. If price knocks your #1 out, then you already know your #2 and what you're willing to give up to get the price you need.

Demo-ing isn't a waste of time. It'll set you up for years of better workflow and profits. And, you can polish off your extensions at the same time.

[Guest Taxed]

When do the trade publications do the review of tax prep software. I think the most current one that i have seen is based on 2011 version. Anybody seen a 2012 comparison?

[Randall]

Joelgilb, thanks. Don't know how you did all that during the busy season. But thanks for the input.

[kcjenkins]

Lion, great post, you make a lot of good points. [ I suspect, tho, that a lot of our members simply do not charge enough, so the difference in a $1500 program and a $5 to 6K program is quite a few more returns. ] Still, at least they should certainly demo a couple of high-end programs, and make note of the increased speed, automation, formats, etc. Because, as you say, if it saves you the time to do significantly more returns, and with more confidence in the review function, it may pay for itself, while giving you a bit more time for your personal life, as well.

[Jack from Ohio]

Lion, great post, you make a lot of good points. [ I suspect, tho, that a lot of our members simply do not charge enough, so the difference in a $1500 program and a $5 to 6K program is quite a few more returns. ] Still, at least they should certainly demo a couple of high-end programs, and make note of the increased speed, automation, formats, etc. Because, as you say, if it saves you the time to do significantly more returns, and with more confidence in the review function, it may pay for itself, while giving you a bit more time for your personal life, as well.

Actually, Prosystem FX would cost my firm $20K and that included a 35% discount. To recoup the additional costs properly, prep costs will have to increase an average of $15-20 per client just to break even with all costs involved. The majority of our returns are in the range of $110-$200 and clients will NOT understand an increase of 15-20% in one year.

The savings in time, will be offset by the learning curve, extra scrutiny from conversion and other logistical costs. $5k additional cost could be assimilated much easier, but the total benefits of the new program would, at best, wash out with the additional time and logistical costs of changing.

[Lion EA]

When I was shopping, ATX that I'd decided against was around $1,200, Drake late in the year is what about $1,900, I had a price locked in from ProSeries for $3,800, and ProSystem offered me $5,000 for everything as a small business locked in for three years. (The following year when I knew more what clients I had, I went to pay per return for about $4,800). I promised clients that followed me no price increase for two years and easily took on half a dozen new clients that covered the $1,200 difference with profits to spare. I also dropped my assistant's hours after the first year, and none now. With the advent of Form 8949 recently, I've been raising my fees to all investors $25 or more at a time. I lost one client on fees, but I'd been trying to lose her by raising her fee each year. I'm in pricey Fairfield County, CT, where a CPA will not touch a return for under $750, so I have good pickings in the $150-500 range.

[cheering]

best price for Drake ?

in all my genius, i'm not clear on what my proce should be.

i'm a sole practitioner.

what i remember is that they said if i paid for 2013, that i would get 2002-2012 programs free.

anyone know the price for unlimited returns ?

any master negotiators in here ?

[FLORIDA TAX MAN]

DO you think I should drop ATX because they BANNED ME ??

Not exactly what I would call friendly customer service.

[taxxcpa]

best price for Drake ?

anyone know the price for unlimited returns ?

any master negotiators in here ?

Here is a link to Drake's pricing:

http://www.drakesoftware.com/site/products/PricingPurchasing.aspx

$1095 for unlimited returns plus Client Write-up (for payroll, 1099s, W-2, 940s and 941s.)

[ADGFINANCIAL]

Well, I for one decided to make a change going forward. I ordered Proseries on 4/17 and will do the rest of my returns this year on the new program now that the rush of the seasons is over. I ended 4/15 with 477 returns done. ATX made this tax year very difficult but like most made the decision to tough it out. I expect to do about 100 - 150 additional returns from now to the end of the year. When I first ordered ATX about 10 years ago this is the same way I went about it. By 2014 I should be fully up to speed on Proseries. I've done so far 3 returns in the new package and find it a very good transition.

Since postings the above I have now done an Amended return in Proseries and am up to 5 returns complete. I was given a price of $1033. (with includes NY Sales Tax) with a lock-in for 5 years. That's the full package 1040 and business. The program seem easy to learn and support is very good this time of year.

I'm able to do a 1040 very easily and keep checking it against ATX. Error check is very good. I'm beginning to like the program better than ATX as the input is faster.

August @ ADGFinancial.com

[JohnH]

It looks as though Proseries has a big following.
Lots of good comments about it here and on other forums.

I'm planning to check it out as my backup to Drake.
(always need to keep the powder dry)

[NYTaxLady]

When do the trade publications do the review of tax prep software. I think the most current one that i have seen is based on 2011 version. Anybody seen a 2012 comparison?

The comparison reviews should be out in Sept.

I have emailed with two different article authors from past reviews (something I suggest you also do, and give them your business size and needs), both said they were going to do their reviews to be out in Sept, but I specifically asked them to concentrate on smaller firms this year, given the need for change of many software users.

[Maribeth]

Stephen Drake has contacted me over the years regarding his software. He called this morning and I spoke with him about Drake's plans and my plans. He assures me that they have no plans of selling out to another vendor and they handle all of the tax forms that ATX has except for the 5500. I have a demo on the way. Am going to set it up on the network and see how I like it this year.

I am in a quandry however. I did not have the problems that others did during tax season with ATX. Did not have crashes or roll over problems. My biggest problem was the instability of the return manager and its not holding return status correctly. Other than that, we did okay.

Have not yet had an email from ATX or a phone call from whoever my account exec is. So do I stay with ATX? Do I have Drake as a fall back?? The only thing I know for sure is that I will not use another Intuit product

[Jack from Ohio]

Stephen Drake has contacted me over the years regarding his software. He called this morning and I spoke with him about Drake's plans and my plans. He assures me that they have no plans of selling out to another vendor and they handle all of the tax forms that ATX has except for the 5500. I have a demo on the way. Am going to set it up on the network and see how I like it this year.

I am in a quandry however. I did not have the problems that others did during tax season with ATX. Did not have crashes or roll over problems. My biggest problem was the instability of the return manager and its not holding return status correctly. Other than that, we did okay.

Have not yet had an email from ATX or a phone call from whoever my account exec is. So do I stay with ATX? Do I have Drake as a fall back?? The only thing I know for sure is that I will not use another Intuit product

We have just started seeing the results of another deep program flaw. Preparer finished the return, it was reviewed by a second person as is protocol, then the return copies for the client were printed and the e-file created. Later that day, the return was opened to print additional information, and saved when it was closed.

When I started to transmit it, it was in the "rejected" status so I opened the return, created the e-file, closed the return and transmitted. When I opened the return on my workstation, all assets and 4562 information were wiped out, reducing the refund by $270. This happend March 15. Client called after receiving the reduced refund and we discovered the problem.

I can only imagine how many other items like this one have not yet surfaced and am expecting tons of CP2000s in the coming months. Now, I scrutinize EVERY efiled return to be sure numbers match the 8879. More extra time consuming effort that is unnecessary if the software were fixed as well as erroneous information being transmitted.

[Maribeth]

Jack, yes, I efiled all the returns and checked the 8879 against the return before I created the efile. We only created efiles on the server, only rolled over on the server, only updated on the server. The two workstations prepared returns but all the "admin" functions were done on the server. And yes, again, I made sure the signed 8879 agreed to the return before I created the efile.

We have a complete review process and the 8879 should be correct. I am not expecting CP2000's because of ATX issues but if I do start getting them, I will let you know.

And thanks once again for the heads up on the backup issues. I have exported returns ever since

[Guest Taxed]

Interesting observation! If you go the main CCh website (I think it is cchgroup.com) and try to find ATx you will not find it. If you do a search on their site ATX it will come up empty. They do highlight the Fx series as their tax solution etc.

What does this mean? Is ATX on its way to a very slow and painful death or will we find out soon before next tax season that ATX is no more, either sold or merged??? Remember what HRB did to Taxworks recently.

[Gail in Virginia]

Interesting observation! If you go the main CCh website (I think it is cchgroup.com) and try to find ATx you will not find it. If you do a search on their site ATX it will come up empty. They do highlight the Fx series as their tax solution etc.

What does this mean? Is ATX on its way to a very slow and painful death or will we find out soon before next tax season that ATX is no more, either sold or merged??? Remember what HRB did to Taxworks recently.

I am not sure that it means anything. If you search the same site for TaxWise it also returns no results. The Small Firms Services has a separate website where information about ATX and TaxWise is available. So not saying they will be around or they won't be around, but I don't think the main CCH website lack of information means a whole lot.

[Guest Taxed]

You may be right but have you noticed how the main site promotes the Fx series!

I know Taxwise is the software for IRS VITA folks so that will be around for a while unless IRS abandons them!

The question is how much CCH has to spend to get ATX back to a position where it is competitive in price and features, given a significant loss of existing client base after this year!

It is going to be an interesting fall to see who survives for next tax season and at what price!

[joanmcq]

ProFx was CCH's software long before they bought ATX & Taxwise. Neither software has ever been on the main CCH site. You are just being paranoid.