Complaint about fee

[Margaret CPA in OH]

Wait, wait, we get a chance to slow down and scale back, too, don't we?  At 77, I'm ready for the raising rates to thin the herd but still make enough money to keep traveling - off to Papua New Guinea for scuba diving April 24-May 11.  Stress relief writ large.

[Slippery Pencil]

On 3/30/2023 at 10:55 AM, kathyc2 said:

definitely less than the H&R's.   I don't aim to be the lowest cost,

Those two statements are contradictory.  If you think so little of yourself to charge less than HRB, you are definitely aiming to be the lowest cost.

[Lee B]

2 hours ago, Slippery Pencil said:

Those two statements are contradictory.  If you think so little of yourself to charge less than HRB, you are definitely aiming to be the lowest cost.

 

2 hours ago, Slippery Pencil said:

Mod note:  this post was hidden

Among the posters on this board we have a wide variation in skill levels from those  who are just be beginning their careers to those who are winding down their careers.

While you have a right to your opinion, I think your posts are excessively sarcastic and don't belong here.

Perhaps you have had a really crappy day and you normally wouldn't have posted your comments?

Edited April 1, 2023 by jklcpa
one quote was hidden

[Slippery Pencil]

There's no sarcasm to the my first comment.  Her two comments are contradictory.

While I wouldn't phrase it that way to the client, she needs to educate the client that the fee he is complaining about is already half of market value and she even discounted it further from that, so no, he can't do anything to lower her fee.  He's looking a gift horse in the mouth and that will end bad for both of them if she doesn't educate him.

[kathyc2]

4 hours ago, Slippery Pencil said:

There's no sarcasm to the my first comment.  Her two comments are contradictory.

While I wouldn't phrase it that way to the client, she needs to educate the client that the fee he is complaining about is already half of market value and she even discounted it further from that, so no, he can't do anything to lower her fee.  He's looking a gift horse in the mouth and that will end bad for both of them if she doesn't educate him.

Not at all contradictory.  Who says H&R is market rate?  My fees are almost always higher than non licensed preparers.  Among one person CPA offices such as myself and EA's, sometime my rates are higher and sometimes lower.  Like I said, I charge what I feel is fair.

Your comment of I think so little of myself and saying I'm stupid in the post Judy deleted says more about you than about me.  Peace out.

[JJStephens]

Holy canoli...I'm apparently waaaay undercharging! I've actually had several clients tell me that. You'd think I'd get a clue! I think because I deal mostly with clergy and/or elderly folk, my fee structure is partly based on altruistic impulses. In fact, I generally do about 20% for free. It's too late to change this year but next year I think I'm gonna raise my fees more than the $2 or $3 dollars I 'jacked' 'em up this year 

[kathyc2]

I ran across this site years ago and find it quite interesting.  I put in my town and Lion's Fairfield, CT.  Her cost of living is close to double mine, so it make sense she should be charging double.  

https://www.bestplaces.net/cost-of-living/

[Lion EA]

Love that site, Kathy! I tell people Fairfield County, CT, because no one's heard of Weston, CT, even many people in CT, because we're very, very small. I just put in Fairfield, CT, that Kathy compared to her town in IN vs Weston, CT, and the cost of living is Fairfield, CT, 154.8 vs Weston, CT 184.2. (Housing 318.2) US average is 100. So, my town is even more expensive than any of us thought. And, I'm very glad I bought my house in 1978.

Rural CT trivia: Westport, Fairfield, Easton, and Weston, CT, all meet at one point along (in?) the Aspetuck River.

Oh, my gosh, we're more expensive than New York City!

[kathyc2]

18 minutes ago, Lion EA said:

Oh, my gosh, we're more expensive than New York City!

But not if you limit NYC to Manhattan!  

It's pretty amazing how granular it gets.  I don't live in any city limits and if I put in my township rather than nearest town is has my transportation costs as higher.  Guess it realizes that I need to drive more to get to necessities like a grocery store than people who live in town!  

[Lion EA]

True, I was just going to go back to try Manhattan.

[Yrags]

On 3/29/2023 at 7:27 PM, kathyc2 said:

It happens very infrequently, but it is does, it really throws me for a loop.

MFJ- 1 state

3 w-2's, 2 1099R's, K1 from trust with capital loss so Sch D, small and simple Sch C, child tax credit, tuition credit (had to ask for 1098T even though it's on checklist), standard deduction. 

Would you charge:

a) less than $250

b) between $250-300

c) more than 300

Curious minds want to know.....

I guess I charge too little: probably close to $400-$450. If that "1 state" is Mass then $1000. (Mass is the most complicated state return I've ever done for a non-resident who made $6000 Mass income).

[Sara EA]

I think CA is the most complicated.  I was taken aback to realize they still allow misc 2% deductions that are long gone from the federal so you don't think to enter them.  With MA you have to be careful that state AGI is correct.  In UltraTax, it populates from Box 1, but that's not the number MA uses.

[BrewOne]

Interesting thread; at the other board where I participate, there would have been immediate warnings to not discuss pricing. That being said, there have been some great comments.  I left Block "Premium" (now "Advisors") because I got tired of constant complaints from my clients about the pricing.  I hated not doing a return the way I wanted because of how the client would be charged (for example $25 for a student loan entry that saved them $10). 

When I went out on my own, I was greatly influenced by that experience and wanted to offer my services at a fair price.  It's meant that I have all the work I want and I can be very picky on whose return I do.

[kathyc2]

1 hour ago, BrewOne said:

When I went out on my own, I was greatly influenced by that experience and wanted to offer my services at a fair price.  It's meant that I have all the work I want and I can be very picky on whose return I do.

Yep.  I'd say I spend twice the time on a new return as a returning client. Looking over prior year for carry overs and obvious errors, needing to type and double check for typos basic info, depreciation if applicable, among other things.

After allowing for things like death my retention rate is almost always over 95%, so I guess I'm doing something right. 

[RitaB]

On 3/29/2023 at 6:56 PM, Margaret CPA in OH said:

More than $300 but, if well organized, probably less than $500.  If lots of messages getting the documents (like the 1098T and answers), maybe more.  I bill by time, not form.  When it takes a lot of time - begin the return, ask questions, pick it up again, more messages for answers, etc. - it costs the client lots of money.  Like the video that's been around, I'm billing time and also expertise.

I agree my needy clients pay more.  They should.  Last week I increased on invoice because a new client, who had told me he got text messaging, called me asking when they could come in and see what I had done with their [very special] tax return.  I generally hate phone calls as they waste my time.  I had texted him on March 16 that the return was ready, please come in at your convenience.   He had made two trips to drop off, called before each one, my greeting plainly says come in at your convenience, and he likes to hear the sound of his own voice.  At pick up, he lamented that according to my projection for next year, he not only does not need to make estimated tax payments, but he will get a $4,000 refund.  "Oh, no, I really hate getting refunds."  Me:  "Well, that's on you, Chief, tell somebody to reduce withholding by $4,000."  He kept talking.  And talking.  He now knows the tax brackets, has a copy of same, and that it is cutting your nose off to spite your face to pay 22% on a withdrawal you don't need because you don't like getting refunds.  Notes in file in charge more next time.

So anyway, Kathy, I'm probably at $285 federal, $50 state, provided the client didn't waste a lot of my time.

We have a preparer here who plays that game with the invoice listing every form in the return, some not even in the return, with the big discount.  I am getting several of her clients because she's making mistakes.  The last one in here, the 2021 invoice was $325 marked down to $110.  If the return was correct, $325 would have been fair.  As it was, $110 was too much.  Everything is relative; all returns, all clients, and all preparers are not created equal.

[BTS]

RitaB !!!  Dont give clients your cell number !!!      We have clients always asking for our cell numbers.  But lordy, if we did we would get bombarded with texts and calls.  Especially the pain in the arse ones.  We just kindly tell them, "sorry our cell numbers are for friends and family only", please use the office phone or email any questions.

[Abby Normal]

11 minutes ago, BTS said:

RitaB !!!  Dont give clients your cell number !!!      We have clients always asking for our cell numbers.  But lordy, if we did we would get bombarded with texts and calls.  Especially the pain in the arse ones.  We just kindly tell them, "sorry our cell numbers are for friends and family only", please use the office phone or email any questions.

Get a google voice number and give that out as your cell. Then when you get a text, it's already on your computer and you can print the text to a PDF for your records. And set Google Voice to just take messages in case your clients ever call your "cell."

[Randall]

26 minutes ago, Abby Normal said:

Get a google voice number and give that out as your cell. Then when you get a text, it's already on your computer and you can print the text to a PDF for your records. And set Google Voice to just take messages in case your clients ever call your "cell."

What is a Google voice number?  I suppose you have to pay for it.  I have a Google email address in addition to my regular email address.  Does the voice (texts) come thru on your regualr Google account?  Or do you have to set up a different account?

 

[Lion EA]

True, I was just going to go back to try Manhattan. And, my old hometown of Bellwood, IL, where my sister still lives in the house we grew up in, is dirt cheap with everything under 100% of national averages.

[Lion EA]

I just did a quick search on Google. A Chat person (or bot) gave me: Here's a number you can call anytime Monday–Friday 8AM–8PM ET: +1-855-720-6978.

Love the idea. I may set that up after the next tax deadline. But, I just had new biz cards printed !!

[BTS]

We have a landline with the same number since 1980,  while a Google number seems like a viable option for offices with no landline, I do not relish the idea of Google storing client texts and such.     15 more days people !!!!!   Who am I kidding, damn extensions !!!   

[Abby Normal]

1 hour ago, BTS said:

We have a landline with the same number since 1980,  while a Google number seems like a viable option for offices with no landline, I do not relish the idea of Google storing client texts and such.     15 more days people !!!!!   Who am I kidding, damn extensions !!!   

You can delete the texts if they contain sensitive info. It's no less insecure than a text to your cellphone. And having a landline has nothing to do with it. It's just an alias for your cellphone, but you don't have to link the Voice number to your cellphone.

One nice advantage is that everyone in the office has the same cell number and everyone can see all the texts and voice messages in one convenient place.

[Abby Normal]

3 hours ago, Randall said:

What is a Google voice number?  I suppose you have to pay for it.  I have a Google email address in addition to my regular email address.  Does the voice (texts) come thru on your regualr Google account?  Or do you have to set up a different account?

 

It's totally free and has been for decades. If you have a google account/Gmail address, adding a voice number is easy. I have two voice numbers, one work and one personal. My SO has one for her cell as well. We give it out to people we don't want having our real cell #.

[Lion EA]

But I can have texts show up on my computer &/or email instead of on my cell? So, I can easily move them to my clients' files on my computer? (I urge email, so I can store; but I have a few who really want to text.) Can I respond to texts from my computer? I hate typing a text on my phone with that tiny keyboard. I end up texting, "Check your email." and then typing out an email to them!

[kathyc2]

14 minutes ago, Lion EA said:

But I can have texts show up on my computer &/or email instead of on my cell? So, I can easily move them to my clients' files on my computer? (I urge email, so I can store; but I have a few who really want to text.) Can I respond to texts from my computer? I hate typing a text on my phone with that tiny keyboard. I end up texting, "Check your email." and then typing out an email to them!

My son set it up so I get texts on both phone and computer.  If an android:  https://support.google.com/messages/answer/7611075?hl=en  Guessing Apple has something similar.  Much easier to type with a full keyboard.  If I need to keep it, I use snipping tool to save it.