Top 20 most used forms by your practice

[rchinchilla]

@jainen - Thank you for your concern. I see that this topic is really sparking interest in you. I actually do have first hand experience in tax preparation and we currently are operating offices in about 15 states. I also know how hard it is to switch tax software. Remember the saying "We will cross that bridge when we get there", this is our stance on some of the issues that you have mentioned. At the same time we are developing a foundation that will allow us to make modifications at the drop of a dime, or should I say, at the chime of an e-alert courtesy of the IRS.

@Mel in Hawaii - Thank you for your detailed post. I will answer your questions in the order they were asked.

First - PHP has proven to be the technology of choice for the web. PHP would allow for the user to create a "master" computer, also known as a server in their office. Many of the large practices use multiple computers, most of the small practices have at least 2 computers. If a server is used at these locations, the only thing that will change is that they will be preparing tax returns on their browsers. PHP is optimized for speed and when running on a LAN it's seamless. We would only be handling the transmissions and acknowledgments of said returns. I don't want to seem vague but at the same time I don't think this is a technology forum. However we are currently designing with the mentality of a virtual network who can summon resources as necessary without any user input. This means if the cluster feels that it is reaching capacity it will fire up additional servers that may or may not be sitting in the same room. Since we will be using virtual machines we will have hundreds if not thousands of computer at our disposal if needed. Once no longer needed these computers would continue to operate in their regularly assigned roles. Take a look at this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8reDlSqxuY

http://citrix.com/English/ps2/products/pro...ontentID=683148

Second - A lot of projects have found dedicated QUALITY programmers and we know this project is no different. We aren't asking people to leave their jobs, wife and kids. We are asking for developers to create, modify and review code. Please do not misunderstand me. We continue to hire a team of full time developers that are working on this project day and night, I am not exaggerating. This team is currently dedicated to the core components of the software.

Third - Yes I am talking about last years products. These products seem to be the best for running benchmarks and comparing results. We prefer to test our calculations against calculations that are DEFINITE.

Privacy and Ownership of data - The information will be stored in the same manner your current software stores it, which is locally. Regarding exporting we have also already develop a strategy to allow ANY software developer to open the files and import them into their software. This would be through use of private/shared keys and encryption. We believe this information belongs to the tax preparer, since the information was entrusted to him/her. They should be able to import it into TurboTax if they wanted to. They should be able to import it into any software application without limitation. We are creating software without limits.

Mel in Hawaii, this is Roger from New York and I hope I answered all of your questions.

[TAXBILLY]

<<I actually do have first hand experience in tax preparation and we currently are operating offices in about fifteen states<<

What's the name of your company?

taxbilly

[Mel in Hawaii]

Woo hoo, if you have the hardware sitting there ready...

yup, PHP is a good tool for the web, but does that mean it's meant for a tax practice? I think you would have a hard time proving that one to me. That does move the processing down to the local lan and one server would suffice for even the most active office, but I dont' want to be their technical support team. Just wait until they throw a consumer 'all in one antiviral, firewall, and everything else they can cram into it, package' on the server. Hehe.. LAN operations doesn't make it seamless, a dedicated server makes the response time faster. If you put that server in SanFran or Miami, a dedicated server would still be almost instantaneous.

Yes, I know what Citrix is as I have been using it for many years. I don't think it's the perfect answer and that video is so misleading in it's ease of deployment. Do you really have a data center sitting idle with 150 machines preloaded with Citrix ready to deploy your server? Ok, do you have multiple data centers all over the country ready to deploy your software? No, ok, you are going to outsource that to another company that is doing that for you? Ok, that's fine too. Now you have a security issue. Oh, you use data centers that have 24/7 security with keycard access blah blah blah. Ok, give me 5 minutes to sign up as a client, install my server and hack your servers from within their data center. Security issue right there and that took zero thought to come up with.

A lot of projects find quality programmers, but Quality programmers willing to put so much effort in during their busy season? Building tax programs have SERIOUS time constraints that other projects just do NOT have.

Good luck to you, obviously you want to blow me off as some neophyte tax guy (when I don't prepare returns for a living). You could have simply said that you were going to have each office install PHP (and associated database server) at their locations. Remember I did say that I hoped my assumption was incorrect. That's perfectly fine with me though, I don't need to help you. But I still think PHP is just adding another layer of bugs to your software.

But if you are comparing 'last years software' then why doesn't your DEMO work? You took it down because you are waiting for your next version to come out?

[jainen]

>>why doesn't your DEMO work?<<

I think Roger already answered when he said, "We will cross that bridge when we get there." I wasn't being arch when I invoked the specter of Battlecruiser 3000. Lots of bridges never have to be crossed because one never does get there. They have "a team of full time developers that are working on this project day and night," but they don't have a plan for anybody actually installing the game.

@rchinchilla (this cute way to address comments is one thing I am ready to implement right now!), here is my advice that I have been working on day and night. You suggested multiple software applications are undesirable, but surely you don't expect your new program to replace everything we use all at once. Open Source lends itself to plugins and links and the like. I suggest you first produce something special to establish your reputation for clean programming and reliable tax theory. Later you can integrate it with other modules.

For example, you are associated with a national travel agency. I'm quite sure you've got a few under-employed contract lawyers hanging around this month. Ask them to build a set of election statements. It won't take long to come up with something vastly better than what is currently available, especially for independent tax preparers struggling with less-than-high-end resources. Make it complete, with clear instructions for use including citations to solid authority. MS Word templates would be a useful format so we can edit and cut-n-paste. Sex it up so it's fun to use, and give it a clever name like Election Grimoire.

[Booger]

Election Grimoire??? That's my neighbors name.

Booger

[jklcpa]

I actually do have first hand experience in tax preparation and we currently are operating offices in about 15 states. Remember the saying "We will cross that bridge when we get there", this is our stance on some of the issues that you have mentioned.

How much first hand tax prep experience could you have, and with what company? Your bio says you're only 25 y.o.

And as to crossing the bridge, I want my tax software provider to already have crossed that bridge over the river, travelled through the woods, arrived at Grandma's, and finished dinner and dessert.

I looked at your website using a link from another post. The site is amateurish at best, filled with spelling errors, and the text overruns the border of the page and cannot be read. The quick estimator reminded me of some cheap tax program for home users from years ago, not something to be marketed to tax professionals. This does not inspire confidence in your project.

I can only imagine that the 2007 returns you tested your program calculations with were very simple returns if you are just now dedicating programming resources to some of the forms included in this survey.

[rchinchilla]

I think this topic has deviated from it's original track. Let me go over what this PROJECT, I repeat PROJECT is about:

It's a PROJECT that intends to bring a low cost software option to the market. We are not competing for your business. This prohect is not a full fledged tax applicationand the estimator is a BASIC example of the quick calculation abilities. We are not asking your opinion on our designs or how neat or project page looks. What I asked was, Which of the forms does your practice use more often? Very simple. If you feel like trashing me please do so on a private message or via email at rogerchinchilla [at] [gmail] dot com. If you don't have nothing nice to say, don't say it, moveon to the next post, goodbye, adios! No one is obligated to respond. If you are interested in helping out then you are more than welcome. How do you help out? By answering a few questions and being positively insightful. How many of you have a similar project? I'm just a tax preparer that also loves programming!

[kcjenkins]

It's OK, Roger, we are not mad at you. We're just a bit of a rowdy bunch, now and then, some of whom like to pick out any weakness in an argument put forth, just for the practice. Others of us are more calm and patient, but we still allow all kinds, as long as they keep it reasonably polite and clean. We're a COMMUNITY, and as such, we actually encourage a moderate amount of personal chat mixed in with lots of serious tax talk. Most of the time, during tax season we don't have time for much except the tax talk, in the slower times we get into more personal stuff a bit. Just like a typical business office, I think.

Don't get too defensive just because a few folks challenge you. While we may have doubts about the practical aspects of your idea, that does not mean we don't wish you well. Frankly, tax software is a LOT DIFFERENT than any other kind of open-source software I've ever come across. It's not at all like a word processor or even a spreadsheet program, which once you write it is done, except for 'refinements' you add from time to time. Tax law itself changes all the time, and the forms are changed by the IRS often, so the BASICS themselves, behind the program, change often. So I for one find it hard to imagine any program that is not supported by a large paying customer base could possibly work. But that does not mean I don't hope you can prove me wrong.

Besides, how could anyone not smile at a chinchilla, they are so soft and cute! ;~)

[rchinchilla]

Thanks KC,

I was looking at everything that everyone has said and I told Kyle that it must have taken hours to write and read all the responses so far. This time could have been very useful if just a few people would have responded to the questions. Even some ideas of what they which their IDEAL tax software would do.

BTW - Sorry if I sounded defensive. Its been about 1 week of the same thing...boring.

Would the FRIENDLY tax preparers, please stand up!

[jainen]

>>If you don't have nothing nice to say, don't say it<<

Since you feel that way, roger, please apologize for calling me a bitter trash-talker who should get voted out of the community.

Whatever happened to "our philosophy is transparency not dictatorship or censorship"? For a week we have given you an enormous volume of technical and organizational advice, even though the moderators originally felt the topic was not totally appropriate for this forum. We've given you some pretty clear clusters on your poll and explained why we have difficulty with it. That seems to me consistent with your concern about "making rash decisions without taking into consideration what the end-user (which is us, the tax professionals) will have to go through."

Yes, we have donated hours to your project. I can't find a single question of yours that hasn't been directly addressed, but this seems to be a one-way sort of conversation. We have tried our best to be "positively insightful." You have responded with defensive trivialization and blind narcissism.

[rchinchilla]

@jainen - sorry if I have offended you. The insight that I seek is the one you guys posses regarding the USE of tax software not necessarily what you guys think of the project. I never called you a trash talker or asked for the community to vote you out < if this is reference to the you and the Randy from Survivor:Gabon similarities, I truly apologize.[Randy] considers himself a ruthless bully who enjoys picking on those that were not blessed with his strength or intellect. If this is not how you see yourself, sorry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpOmj92Th20

I appreciate the fact that about 25% of the users who have responded to the forums have had very good points. The questions have been addressed by some and some users have crucified me for asking. Once again, I apologize for responding with "defensive trivialization and blind narcissism". I will try to be more transparent in my responses.

[zeke]

>> If you are interested in helping out then you are more than welcome.<<

1009 of us were welcome before you joined. Within reasonable parameters we are welcome to trash each other. and we do. please don't sit at my table & complain about my manners!

z

[TAXBILLY]

To Roger:

<<I actually do have first hand experience in tax preparation and we currently are operating offices in about fifteen states<<

What's the name of your company?

taxbilly

[rchinchilla]

@zeke - so you are saying is that since this is "your table" trash talking is allowed. Interesting. Wisdom comes with age huh?

@taxbilly - Costamar Group is name of the company.

[Mel in Hawaii]

I just wish you would take a bit inspiration from how Medlin presents himself. (Of course, I could benefit from immitating his demenor too most likely.)

[David1980]

OK, who's the wise guy who voted Schedule R? :)

[Virtual Managed Solutions]

I'm not a tax professional, but that makes me wonder - What is Sch R used for?

[taxxcpa]

I'm not a tax professional, but that makes me wonder - What is Sch R used for?

It is a rarely used form for "retirees" who have little or no social security or other income. I have only used it once in about 20 years.

[Lion EA]

Is that the one for the elderly &/or disabled where you have to make a very, very small amount of money to get any benefit? Think I was close to using it once, but too much income.

[Gail in Virginia]

That's the form. There is such a narrow range between having to file at all and making too much to benefit from this credit, that I don't think in 30 years of doing taxes I have ever had anyone actually be able to use it.

[JohnH]

I think Schedule R was the result of legislation not actually designed to do anything significant, but which enabled a few politicians to brag about how they were looking out for the senior citizens by sponsoring a huge tax break for them.

[kcjenkins]

Yep, in 31 years I've had three people who were actually able to use it, but only two of those saved enough to justify adding it. One saved only $2 and that was in the paper days where I'd have had to charge him more than that just to justify the paper used in doing it. So we skipped it. But I still remember it for that very reason.

[jainen]

>>I'd have had to charge him more than that just to justify the paper used in doing it<<

Obviously this was a low-income client, and you had already done the work. Isn't it easier and cheaper just to include it without extra charge, rather than explain to your client how high your fees are?

[taxxcpa]

>>I'd have had to charge him more than that just to justify the paper used in doing it<<

Obviously this was a low-income client, and you had already done the work. Isn't it easier and cheaper just to include it without extra charge, rather than explain to your client how high your fees are?

I can only remember using it once for a woman who had some losses on rental properties and a very small amount of social security income. I've done her taxes for about 20 years and she only needed it that one time.

It is required so seldom that I don't see that charging extra for it would be worth worrying about. I think the software automatically creates it, so all it costs you is an extra sheet of paper.

We may be using it more now that all those retirement funds invested in Bernie Madoff's ponzi scheme.

[kcjenkins]

Obviously this was a low-income client, and you had already done the work. Isn't it easier and cheaper just to include it without extra charge, rather than explain to your client how high your fees are?

No, actually, in those days of paper filing and doing taxes by hand with only a ten-key, and carbon paper for the copies, computing the credit was easy, but including it and all the extra pages would have meant higher costs to me, and in those days, I was still teaching accounting, and doing taxes on the side, and my profit margin was almost nil. So I probably would have, if it had saved him $10, but for just $2 for him, I was not willing to do the form.

Heck, I only charged him $10 for the return in the first place, Atticus. My fees did not get high until I grew my business, and was making a living from it.