taxguy057 Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Anyone out there an Enrolled Agent? Im thinking about applying for it and need some idea of what lion's den i"ll be walking into??? :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1980 Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Anyone out there an Enrolled Agent? Im thinking about applying for it and need some idea of what lion's den i"ll be walking into??? I've passed the first two tests (the individual & business portions). If you've been doing taxes for any period of time it's probably going to be a cakewalk for you. Would of course be a good idea to get a book of some kind and do practice tests, but it's not really that complex if you understand the tax theory. Going to take third (final) test this week, which from all accounts is easiest. But it's also the most boring as near I can tell! Hard to motivate myself to study. Hopefully I can multiple guess my way through that one. Other than getting a couple letters on my business cards I'm not sure if I'll ever get any use out of it. But it's not exactly expensive and some customers might see it as a reason to stick with me instead of changing preparers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxguy057 Posted January 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Well David, they say you can represent clients in frt of irs cases so wouldnt be able to offer another service to public thus charge fees. We would probably be able to undercut what tax lawyers charge. Isnt that what all these commercials on tv now about how so and so saved me so much money in irs debt settlements? So did you take a class to study for or just freelanced on your own thru general knowledge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAXBILLY Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Gleim has the best course to prepare for the EA exam. http://www.gleim.com/accounting/?GHP_SESSI...05f9d590c4c5068 taxbilly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Anyone out there an Enrolled Agent? Im thinking about applying for it and need some idea of what lion's den i"ll be walking into??? I took the tests years ago, back when it was still four parts. Spent a few weeks with the Gleim test prep (books and software), and passed all four sections first try. Worst part was the second test day; halfway into it I developed a vicious migraine from glare in the room, but had to keep going regardless. But I lived. Nothing about the test or the prep was near as bad as working through that pounding (and then getting home afterward). Keep in mind that you get about 10% "free" -- that's about the percentage of questions where the correct answers are NOT included in the choices, or there are MULTIPLE answers depending on how you read the question, or where the question is so poorly worded you can't tell how to answer. I thought Gleim was really good about this -- they take their practice questions straight from old tests, and in the answer section tell you the gory details about ambiguity, multiple answer credit, and the like. When I got to the point where I was finding the errors in the answer choices, I knew I was starting to "get" it. That format also proved to me that my FIRST answer was best -- if I went back to re-think one I wasn't sure about, the changed answer was way more likely to be wrong than my original answer. So in the real test, I did not allow myself to go back and re-think. Once done, it was over. I'd spent a few years doing accounting and bookkeeping on my own, and taxes were becoming a larger and larger portion of my business. However, with a degree in Earth Science/Materials Engineering, I figured an honest-to-goodness tax credential was a good idea. My dad was an accountant, I put myself through school working in accounting, and went back to it every time I'd been laid off from an engineering position. But all my knowledge in accounting and tax was from Hard Knock University, and that particular institution doesn't give out anything to put up on the wall or give your clients a warm and fuzzy feeling about you. To my great joy, taxes require no calculus. And once I gave up the assumption that the rules were somehow supposed to make _sense_, it all became much easier. Know the rules, know how to apply them, but remember they were all invented by Congress and therefore there IS neither rhyme nor reason; they just ARE. Catherine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstaxes Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Most times I find calculus easier then the IRS manuals. (A former math teacher). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion EA Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 An EA is good to have for tax preparers, even though your clients will not know what it means! It lets you represent with a POA without the client being present. You can get information in seconds on-line with a POA and even submit the POA on-line. If you're not a CPA or tax attorney, it gives you privileges you do not have now. The new test seems to be easier, with all the business stuff in only one part instead of two, in case you stick to personal returns. You can also study for one part, take it, walk out with your score in hand, so you know whether you go home and continue studying or move on to the next part. You don't have to wait for a year to take the next part. I took the HRB study course and passed all four parts in one sitting. Once you get your EA, use it to tell your clients what you do for them. Join your local chapter of NAEA or other preparers' group for networking and education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxguy057 Posted January 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 I took the tests years ago, back when it was still four parts. Spent a few weeks with the Gleim test prep (books and software), and passed all four sections first try. Worst part was the second test day; halfway into it I developed a vicious migraine from glare in the room, but had to keep going regardless. But I lived. Nothing about the test or the prep was near as bad as working through that pounding (and then getting home afterward). Keep in mind that you get about 10% "free" -- that's about the percentage of questions where the correct answers are NOT included in the choices, or there are MULTIPLE answers depending on how you read the question, or where the question is so poorly worded you can't tell how to answer. I thought Gleim was really good about this -- they take their practice questions straight from old tests, and in the answer section tell you the gory details about ambiguity, multiple answer credit, and the like. When I got to the point where I was finding the errors in the answer choices, I knew I was starting to "get" it. That format also proved to me that my FIRST answer was best -- if I went back to re-think one I wasn't sure about, the changed answer was way more likely to be wrong than my original answer. So in the real test, I did not allow myself to go back and re-think. Once done, it was over. I'd spent a few years doing accounting and bookkeeping on my own, and taxes were becoming a larger and larger portion of my business. However, with a degree in Earth Science/Materials Engineering, I figured an honest-to-goodness tax credential was a good idea. My dad was an accountant, I put myself through school working in accounting, and went back to it every time I'd been laid off from an engineering position. But all my knowledge in accounting and tax was from Hard Knock University, and that particular institution doesn't give out anything to put up on the wall or give your clients a warm and fuzzy feeling about you. To my great joy, taxes require no calculus. And once I gave up the assumption that the rules were somehow supposed to make _sense_, it all became much easier. Know the rules, know how to apply them, but remember they were all invented by Congress and therefore there IS neither rhyme nor reason; they just ARE. Catherine So has obtaining the EA helped your biz any? Were you able to offer other services with it than without? Just trying to see the relevance of having the EA v/s CPA as far as tax work is concerned... :scratch_head: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion EA Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Because the general public recognizes CPA and not EA, if you have a choice, go for the CPA. At my age, the extra year to get another major in accounting and the years (3?) working for a public accounting firm made no sense. EA gives my clients the peace of mind that if something goes wrong I can deal on their behalf. But, we all hope I don't have to use that aspect much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 So has obtaining the EA helped your biz any? Were you able to offer other services with it than without? Just trying to see the relevance of having the EA v/s CPA as far as tax work is concerned... Yes, it has helped my business. The alphabet soup after my name (even when they don't know what it means) lends instant credibility. And shortly before I decided to "go for it" I had a new client with old tax problems and was very limited in what I could do to help in terms of dealing with the outstanding issues. He was even more limited in what he was willing to do, so in his case it didn't particularly matter. But I wanted to be prepared and ready for the next case. Also, after going through all the Gleim stuff, I had a much better idea of where my knowledge was solid and wehre I needed more study on my own, so I was able to tailor my CPE courses to areas I wanted to be better in. And my state association has monthly meetings with CPE credits that are also a good opportunity to get to know others. As a sole practitioner, sometimes it's really nice to have a place to "talk shop". And I've found others with specialties that I don't cover (like advanced case representation, C-corps, non-profits) so I can refer folks out -- or sometimes just get a second opinion on my own thoughts. Kind of like here (and other newsgroups), but more local issue specific. Catherine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxguy057 Posted January 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 WOW! Thx Cat! You been great help and hopefully as i take my journey to EA bliss, I can call on your help again if i hit a pitfall???!!! :blush: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1980 Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Because the general public recognizes CPA and not EA, if you have a choice, go for the CPA. At my age, the extra year to get another major in accounting and the years (3?) working for a public accounting firm made no sense. EA gives my clients the peace of mind that if something goes wrong I can deal on their behalf. But, we all hope I don't have to use that aspect much. Actually the experience requirement for CPA has really fallen. In WA state for example, tax prep is considered qualified experience. Just need 2000 hours (basically 1-year of a regular job. If all you do is taxes that's probably 3 or 4 tax seasons.) The 5-year of college credits & degree in accounting is worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virtual Managed Solutions Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 So, I'm gathering in all this information (which I find very useful, BTW) and I'm coming to the conclusion that you don't need to go back to college to get your EA or CPA credentials? How does one get started in becoming an EA? I saw the link above to the Gleim website and I'm going to check that out, but if anyone else could offer more advice on where to start, I'd appreciate it. What are some of your battle stories - what made you want to get into taxes? What are the ups and downs of being an EA/CPA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1980 Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 So, I'm gathering in all this information (which I find very useful, BTW) and I'm coming to the conclusion that you don't need to go back to college to get your EA or CPA credentials? How does one get started in becoming an EA? I saw the link above to the Gleim website and I'm going to check that out, but if anyone else could offer more advice on where to start, I'd appreciate it. What are some of your battle stories - what made you want to get into taxes? What are the ups and downs of being an EA/CPA? You don't need college at all to become an EA. You wouldn't need to go back to college for your CPA if you happened to already have a 4-year degree in accounting & a fifth year of college credits (some states may require a master's in accounting, it's state specific.) So for most people, the college requirement is the big limiter on CPA. You can certainly get started in taxes without being an EA or CPA. I'd suggest putting a year in at a chain type store just for the experience so you know what to expect before going out on your own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virtual Managed Solutions Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Are there any of you who have regrets about becoming a tax preparer? In other words, if you could do it all over again, would you have picked a different profession? IME, of helping out tax professionals over the years, it seems stressful, fast paced and it's either a keep up or get out mentality. I love that atmosphere and would want to try it myself, but I want to read first hand experiences and any negative things about the profession to give me a better understanding. Thanks guys! @David1980 - That helped a lot. Thanks for the response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gail in Virginia Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 There is no college requirement to become an EA. When I became an EA, the test was administered by the IRS with paper and pencil (no calculator allowed!). It is now administered by THomson and is computerized, which allows more flexibility in when to take it. You can also become an EA by working for the IRS in an area that deals with compliance for so many years, then when you leave you can apply to be an EA. You must reapply every 3 years, showing that you have met at least the minimum requirements for CPE in each year, including the new ethics requirement. (72 hours during the three years, with at least 16 hours each year including at least 2 hours of ethics each year.) Professional organizations such as NAEA and NATP and others can be a big help in meeting your CPE requirements, but NAEA requires even more education to maintain your status as a member. To become a CPA in VA, you have to have a Bachelor's in Accounting and at least 150 hours of college credit (this is designed to encourage you to get your master's degree, but it does not require it - yet.) Then you have to pass the test and have so many hours of experience, but as David1980 pointed out, tax preparation is considered experience. One advantage to being an EA is that you can represent clients on tax returns that you did not prepare, so this can open up an area of business doing representation work. I personally have not had much of that come my way, but I know some EA's who more or less specialize in that area. As far as how I got into taxes, my mother owned an H&R Block franchise and I began working for her checking returns when I was 13 years old, and preparing them when I was 14. She sold the Block franchises, and became town treasurer for a few years, doing only a few tax returns for customers that insisted on her. She left the town and opened her own office about the time that I was laid off from my job at Signet Trust Co. (I was offered a job in another city, but chose not to take it because my husband and I were ready to start a family and I did not want to move, or even work for a few years.) By the time I was ready to go back to work, she needed more help and I ended up taking the EA exam and working for her again. I am now working towards my CPA, and planning to take over the business in the next couple of years. Does that answer your question, Kyle? Maybe not typical, but that's my story, at least the short version. ^_^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virtual Managed Solutions Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 @gailtaxed - That does. I've been in this arena for so long now, that it just feels right to continue with it in some way. I'd love to have these certifications, and not only to prepare taxes, but to come up with ideas to help the profession. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxguy057 Posted January 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Are there any of you who have regrets about becoming a tax preparer? In other words, if you could do it all over again, would you have picked a different profession? IME, of helping out tax professionals over the years, it seems stressful, fast paced and it's either a keep up or get out mentality. I love that atmosphere and would want to try it myself, but I want to read first hand experiences and any negative things about the profession to give me a better understanding. Thanks guys! @David1980 - That helped a lot. Thanks for the response. Well Kyle, I have my BS in Bus Mgt w/minor in Accounting. I was shooting for double major, but got burned out so settled for the minor. Always like taxes (dont ask me why??), but went and worked at H&R Block for two tax seasons then became a ERO in 2004 and started my own biz on the side of my reg job. I have managed to build a client base of about 100 clients which is good for me since have a fulltime mgt job. One day i would hope to have enough clients to quit work and just do taxes/acctg work, but really dont now how to get more clients in so thought about becoming a EA and or CPA so i can offer year round work. (If anyone else out there has any suggestions on how i can grow my biz pls feel free to share thoughts!! LOL!) Anyway thats my so-so story. Hope it helps you decide to come walk on the wild side!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virtual Managed Solutions Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 @taxguy057 - Have you ever thought of creating a website? I used to dabble in web design, but have strayed away as I got too busy with other things. I am starting to inch my way back into it as there is a need for it with some customers right now. We have a guy that we contract to do it right now, but I'd love to be able to step in and do that on the side. I think no matter what I decide to do in this field it would always be good to have those certifications behind me as it would help relate. Anyway, what I was getting at was starting a website to promote your business. Once that's done, there are lots of avenues for marketing and having a website makes it a little easier for prospective clients to find you. Just a thought. What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jainen Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 >>really don't now how to get more clients<< I must say, TG, that if a college degree in business management didn't cover marketing, the fundamental business issue, then you should go back and work on that subject prior to adding new credentials to your name. Apparently this is not the best forum for Enrolled Agent cheerleaders--let me pick up the pom poms. North, South, East, West. EA's, EA's, we're the best! In my opinion, nobody who enjoys tax work should skip this important step, even if one were already an attorney or CPA. Enrolled Agent is the ONLY designation available for a tax specialist. It can certainly open doors for you. You yourself mentioned representation before the IRS. (Let me add that an EA can even be admitted to practice in Tax Court!) But you aren't going to jump into that career without some serious on-the-job guidance, and nobody is going to give you an apprenticeship without proof that you are serious. Finally, here's a new reason for you. A number of states have already successfully implemented some form of tax preparer registration or licensing. You can expect the IRS to follow. In California, EA's are exempt from state registration. (Actually "state" registration is a euphemism for a program administered by, well, certain corporations in the industry.) Do it, Tax Guy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BulldogTom Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 To Kyle and Tax guy, If I had it to do over again, I might have actually taken the CPA route rather than the EA route. But I don't like auditing. It is getting better (lawsuits have a way of cleaning up an industry) but audit is alot like home appraisals, made to order. I found that to be very distasteful in the one plus year I spent working for a CPA while in college. When I was offered a position in a large regional CPA firm after college, I passed on it and took the EA exam instead. Unfortunately, our society does not do a good job of promoting its designation, and no one really knows what we do. That is why I don't support the society. On the other hand, the CPA designation brings instant credibility. @ Kyle - I love tax work. It is really cool to work with clients to get them the best result on their taxes. And I love representing clients before the IRS. It is the best part of what I do. When that letter comes in the mail and the client has no clue, and you take them through the process and get them the proper results from their tax situation, it is a great feeling. On the other hand, I don't like clients who try to use me as a pawn to cheat the government. I am not in this to help others break the tax laws, and I resent when clients try to use me for that purpose. I spend a lot of time and money keeping my skills up to date. Your comment about keeping up or getting out is right on the nose. You can't really do this half way. It will bite you in the @$$ if you try. The more you learn, the more there is to learn. If you ever want to get into this business, the best way is to work for someone else to get experience. Usually, that means one of the chains. This is the place where HRB is valuable. They carry the liability while you learn. And their teaching material and classes really are good. I took their class when I first started, and my wife worked for them for 6 years before I had enough clients to bring her into my practice. We are building slowly over time, but building steadily. Some day, perhaps in 4 or 5 years, we will be able to work at just the tax business and I can give up my day job. Sorry for the long post. Tom Lodi, CA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxxcpa Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Are there any of you who have regrets about becoming a tax preparer? In other words, if you could do it all over again, would you have picked a different profession? IME, of helping out tax professionals over the years, it seems stressful, fast paced and it's either a keep up or get out mentality. I love that atmosphere and would want to try it myself, but I want to read first hand experiences and any negative things about the profession to give me a better understanding. Thanks guys! @David1980 - That helped a lot. Thanks for the response. I never really wanted to work as a tax preparer. I spent a lot of years as an auditor, but when my company offered an enhanced early retirement program, I needed some extra income. I continued for a while as an auditor/consultant for oil and gas companies that did not have their own audit staff, but also began preparing tax returns. I prefer the auditor work but don't like all the travel, so I only do tax and accounting work now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxxcpa Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Some of you have indicated that you do not like audit work. If you mean the CPA-type audit work, I agree. I always worked for government or the oil industry doing audits. I especially liked doing gas revenue audits and gas processing plant audits in the oil industry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion EA Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 David explained it short & sweet. TayGuy, I've found the best way to get more clients is to ask my current clients, the ones I love best, to recommend me to people like them. Then I get more clients like the ones I love. Give them lots of business cards, so they pass them along. Make sure everyone you know knows that you are accepting new clients. I get good clients at church and from my broker and at Curves, as well as from my current clients. CCH makes use of Execusite to build websites for tax preparers. Up and running with no effort on your part, but you can easily make changes at any time. And, content changes the first of each month to keep things fresh even when you're busy with tax season. DollarsSense.com Kyle, NAEA runs an EA study course using Gleim materials and an on-line instructor. I've heard good things about it. For anyone still at HRB, make sure you take their EA study course before you leave. In fact, take every course you can while you have the chance. Just the books alone are worth more than the $20 charge. When you find a good instructor, take everything they teach. Block's on-line courses are by CCH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virtual Managed Solutions Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 @BulldogTom - Long replies wanted. Thanks for all that info. I like hearing about everyone's stories as I am still undecided where to take my qualifications / profession next. They are all helping. @Lion - I was looking at the Gleim website this morning and got side tracked with other things. This is definitely something I'm going to look into further. On-line classes, exams, instructors would be the best way to go for me right now anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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