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I like the paragraph you include in your letter, John. Thanks for sharing that. We try not to increase fees every year, but most everything else that I pay for goes up over time so my fees have to as well. A few things, like electronics, have come down but paper has skyrocketed in the last five years. Software is more expensive, especially QuickBooks. Education is expensive, and it seems like I need more of it every year just to stay in the same place. I have a few long term clients whose price has decreased because the complexity of their return has decreased as they got older and simplified things. But I don't think we should apologize for raising fees every year or two. And our best clients will understand that. I also raise fees a lot more and more often for PITA clients just to make me feel better about doing the return. And if it gets to the point where that isn't enough to make me feel better, I suggest they go elsewhere. We are still trying to grow our business but some clients I just don't need. Sometimes we just need to remember that we are professionals, and charge accordingly.

Let me tell you what I learned at a "Gear UP" Seminar years ago: The speaker, (I can't recall his name, but he is the baseball card guy...) said that he wanted the "Cringe" reaction when he presented the invoice to the client. If he didn't get a "cringe" from the client, then he didn't bill enough. Sounds harsh, and I am NOT there, yet.... We can get lots of clients, through referrals or from advertising, and we can decide what we want to bill them. And just becasue you started out with a $200 fee 5 years ago, does not mean you have to *STAY* at a $200 fee. I had one client, a corp 1120 return, and 1040 each year. Started at about $800 a year. That was in 2002. He is now up to about $1,200. He complained one day. "Rich we agreed to $800..." And I said, "that was before three different like kind exchanges, four rental properties ago, and an expansion in your business...." Things change. So do my prices. Never heard a word out of him anymore. Some folks have left becasue the price has gone up. But I can count those clients on one hand. When I look down my list of departed clients, I would say less than 10% left because of fees. I have used Qbooks since I started the business, and can track the increase for each of my clients. There are very few that are not paying me a least 15-20% more than thier first return prepared by me.. If they have been here since my start date of June 2003, they are probably 30% or more in increase. I am worth it. Not that I have a "big head" about that, just that *I* wanted to make more money. If I bill more, I make more. And I am not concerned about losing some clients, if it means I am making more money and working less. (the working less hasn't happened yet, but I have replaced *bad* clients with better ones.) Rich

Congress has built in fee increases for us as they add new forms, revise the intent/use of forms, add more due diligence items, etc. For many of my clients I can point to the new (for instance Schedule D/8949) forms/additional pages from last year to explain a price increase with few words needed from me. (Another reason I print all their worksheets, etc., for the client copy!) If I need to say much, I talk about my increased education, often at the last minute due to Congress delaying, that adds to my costs to provide them knowledgeable and accurate service.

The current IRS goal is to increase audits of partnership tax returns with an emphasis on administrative matters in addition to the usual compliance issues. The IRS's initiative is to provide advanced partnership examination training to their revenue agents (aka “auditors”). Partnerships that are following their operating agreements and complying with applicable filing requirements will have less to fear than those who have been careless on the details. Knowing that the IRS will be coming to the table with a competitive edge, you should arm yourself with as much knowledge as possible. Two resources I recommend for partnership audit preparation: IRS Partnership Audit Technique Guide – this is the IRS manual for their auditors to use when auditing partnerships; very helpful to review prior to representing a client in an audit. IRS.gov page on audits of small businesses – an overview of rights, required records and FAQs. If you have other resources or tips about audit preparation, please share!

Just last night I e-filed my last set of client 1099-MISC's for 2012. I charged this guy TRIPLE the usual fee for being obscenely late and making me hound him like a toothache for the information. Just felt like sharing....

don't forget to charge when you fight the penalty notice.

Judy is the biggest defender of the panda because they share the same political bent. Like most liberals, they can overlook any behavior that they feel advances their political bent, even though the same behavior would be an afront to them when directed at them. Do like I did Jack, just block the panda and Judy from your posts. The board is a much more pleasant place when you don't read anything either of them post. Finding the blocked button, and finding out I can use it on a moderator as well, has been the greatest single find on this board. I don't read anything that they say, therefore I don't get upset at the drivel they spout. My name is Bulldogtom, and I approve of this message. Tom Hollister, CA

Your calling me out on this is amusing. After all the hours of time and extensive testing an research I have done personally, Taxed has made derisive comments about everything I post concerning ATX2013. I am honoring my NDA to actually post information to reveal how massively uninformed and jaded she is against ATX2013. The firm and I are NOT having a "backup" program based on my experiences, testing and evaluations. Taxed is NOT being critical at all of the software she has chosen to use. (Drake) I am overdue for one of your "politically correct enforcement" warnings, so I figure this post will get it for me. Taxed's derision of my experiences, research and recommendations insults my intelligence as a professional. However, because I cannot post the items and information that would cause her to cease, I must become amused instead. My name is Jack from Ohio and I approved this rant!!!

Jack, some of us that have moved to other software as our primary vendor may still be considering ATX as a backup. No one posting here should have answers demanded of them, and no one here owes anyone else an explanation or answer on what software they will be using. More specifically, the posts by Taxed do not violate any rules we have set up here, so please stop following up with comments on whether her posts are appropriate or not. I've removed your comment about political affiliation that does not belong in the general chat area. To both of you, please cut out the sparring. It adds nothing except to continue the negative tone that this board has had this year.

I intend to add the following paragraph to my letter this year: "Please be aware that the IRS is putting more and more responsibility on tax preparers and backing it up with heavy penalties if a preparer is negligent. I may be asking more questions and requiring proof in more cases. I CANNOT ACCEPT ESTIMATED FIGURES. Tax preparers are in a more precarious position than ever before." I also state in my letter that the better they organize their information, the less time I have to spend on the return and that my fee is based on the approximate time I spend on the return. (I can't bill by the hour because I am a one person office and am continually being interrupted by the phone.)

If my clients were willing to pay triple and not worry about their penalties, I'd file them all in November. :)

I think the IRS should look at her tip records. Nothing like a friendly audit of your voluntary tax return to find the truth. Tom Hollister, CA

You would be most welcome to.

You could always give them the option to pay you an extra $500 fee for each return you prepare for them, to be returned after the SOL has expired for each said return. The eventual refund would need to be reduced by some sort of fee for maintaining the extra record keeping, of course. . :)

At the Drake website where the conversion programs are located, you can click on the form next to it and see what gets converted. Very helpful.

You can use an electronic signature pad if the clients come into your office and sign the pad--both husband and wife if it is a joint return. You can NOT use a digital signature to sign Form 8879. It is possible that this could change, but I think the digital signature might be too confusing for a lot of clients. Most people on the Drake forum say they usually e-mail the forms to the client and the clients sign and then e-mail, fax or snail-mail it back rather than come to the preparer's office to sign either a form or a signature pad. The signature pad would be most useful if you have a prepare-while-U-wait type of practice.

I tell them that it the current year's return is identical to last year, aside from the numbers being different, then their fee will be $xxx. But I qualify that by saying that when i get their info if I see anything different that they forgot to tell me about or that I forgot to ask, I'll let them know before beginning work on the return. That has happened a few times over the years, and in each case the client agreed with me. From everything you've posted, I think your relationships with your clients are similar to mine. I may be wrong, but I suspect your clients would be much more amenable to price increases than you imagine. But as Rich said, and he said it well, their reaction is secondary to what is in your best business interests. (Judy: Nice of you to move the thread. I was aware we were digressing far from the original subject but wasn't thinking of how to handle it. Your solution is good.)

Once your family grows up, it is never right for everybody. Surprisingly, all of mine are going to come to me this year at the same time (including the new Great-Grandbaby). Yeah!!!

Taxed: This line:"My problem is that I still can't figure out how they will respond." Its not your problem. Really. If you increased all your rates for all your clients by 5%, or $25 whichever makes sense for you, you end up possibly making 5% more or ($25 x the number of returns you prepare) Now, if you are like me, with 350 returns, that would be anywhere from $6,250 to $8,750 in increased billing for tax season. I could lose 4-5 clients at $350 a pop and still be well ahead. Look at it this way: "I have been hired, and I have been fired" Neither of them hurt me.... Rich

Interesting thread. I actually attended the Road Show in Brooklyn on Friday. Jack, Kerri says hello. My specfic question to the assembled employee's of ATX at the Road Show regarding operating a "Peer to Peer" network system was met with a "No". Meaning, that an ATX user can load as many copies of the software on as many computers as they want, but they will not be able to share a common database/Return Manager/EFile Manager,etc. As was available for years with ATX. You gotta go with the MS Server2008 and make that one host the common database/Return Manager. THAT is all I want. I want ALL my ATX clients in ONE place, accessed by ANY of my employee's from any computer in my office, all the time, and without serious time lag or shutdowns. I could not find out about that at the road show. It is promised, but I have NOT seen this happen yet. Much has been promised, but.... The program ran fine at the Road Show on a stand alone laptop. 2.6Ghz processor, and 8Ghz RAM, 64bit. It took about 12 seconds to open an average 1040/SchA/SchB return, and they had a "Large" return that took about 45 seconds to open. But it was big and ugly. Learned a couple of new things, and that will make tax season easier. I purchased the program after I left the road show. The $150 discount was nice, paid for the trip to NYC. I now have to go buy a new server box, with MS Server and some other things. I need a new computer anyway... Rich

I really agree on showing full prices then a discount. Too many times a long time or favorite client is getting preferred rates and anyone they recommend you too expects those rates too.

It was driving me crazy. I thought I was doing something wrong. Here is a cut and paste version: WHAT’S NEW in Drake 2013 Electronic Signatures The e-signature process is fully integrated in Drake 2013 (Drake e-Sign), making it easy to incorporate into your existing workflow. This feature allows taxpayers and tax preparers to digitally sign a variety of documents, including tax forms, bank applications, and consent forms. Drake e-Sign is authentic, tamper-proof, and securely bound to the document. Enhanced Calculatiion Results The EF Status column of the calculation now displays the e-file eligibility off the main form, state returns, and other e-file able state products. Also, the status of extensions is displayed for all packages. Several new indicators are now available in the EF status column on the Calculation Results window. Indicator EF eligibility Green check mark Default product is eligible and no EF messages; other eligible products have been selected for e-file and have no EF messages Red X Product not eligible for e-file due to EF messages Accepted Product has already been transmitted and has received an “A” acknowledgment. Suppressed Occurs on any product included in the return that is ready for e-file (no EF message) but Do NOT send Federal, Do not send any states, Suppress federal/state EF check boxes have been selected on EF screen or at Setup > Options > EF tab Not Selected Occurs on any product included in the return that is ready for e-file (no EF message) but has not been selected on the EF screen Not Available Indicates that e-file is not available for a specific state product. Can be used in a federal product for forms that are part of the federal product but will not be e-filed with the return. (For instance, Form 5227 in the 1041 package. Even though you can complete the form in Drake, the 5227 will receive a “Not Available” indicator because the IRS accepts the 5227 in paper form only.) Letter Editor Drake’s letter editor now offers more options than ever to help you personalize letters, from adding borders to adjusting margins to customizing your letterhead. To view these settings, open the Client Communications Editor from Setup > Letters. Next, go to Setup > Letterhead, Margins, and Borders. Also new for 2013, you can edit the letterhead further, by choosing it from the Open > Individual > Letterhead option in the Letter Editor. Organizer Checklist New for 2013, Drake has added an Organizer Checklist to the program. Automatically printed with an organizer, the checklist offers your clients a quick way to assure themselves they have gathered the information you need to file accurate and complete tax returns. Forms Based Data Entry Based Data Entry Forms-based data entry allows you to enter a previously prepared 1040 return into the tax software. It also provides an interesting interface for accessing data entry screens, since what you are doing is selecting screens from a form. This data entry option has been available for only the 1040 package; however, for 22013 this option is available for all packages. From the Home window, go to File >> Forms Based Data Entry. Enter or select the desired return. Scheduler Drake’s Scheduler can now communicate with Windows Outlook and with Google so that you won’t have to enter your appointments in two places. Scheduler can now send appointments made in Drake’s Scheduler to your Outlook calendar or your Google calendar, and can pull appointments made in Google or Outlook into your Scheduler. Drake Status Page Now you can check the status of Drake Software’s online services including Support, e-file, e-mail, acknowledgements, bank processes, Online EF database, GruntWorx, SecureFilePro, Drake Zero, Drake Hosted, Online Filing, and credit card processing. More Helpful Help Helps are more extensive and comprehensive now in Drake. When you access Help now, you’re not only given the help you need, but you’re also given options for learning more about the topic you’re seeking help for. Help Videos -Short, instructional video clips have been added to the software, giving you quick “goto” resources for learning about important preseason chores, such as setting up the software, data entry, e-filing, letters, archiving, and Drake’s varied tools and products. Help Links -Click the Help button from the Home window for links to the Drake KB, the Support site, and your program Help. When you click the Help button on the Data Entry Menu, or when you right- click any data-entry field within a Drake screen, you’re offered a list of options, among them links to Program Help, to Navigation Help, to the Drake Support website, to the Drake Knowledge Base (KB), and to the Drake e-Training Center. The link to the Drake KB includes a list of the eight most frequently viewed articles. RESEARCH Drake Software customers will have a variety of tax research options for the 2014 filing season. Within the Drake Software 2013 program, there will be access to a custom Internet search tool aimed at giving you high quality search results from tax resource websites. This customizable tool lets you manage a library of websites to search, eliminating unwanted search results and returning the information most valuable to you. To access the Drake Custom Web Search tool, click Research from the Home window toolbar. NOTE: For 2013, Drake has partnered with two companies to provide tax reference materials at a discount for Drake users: TheTaxBook and The TaxBook WebLibrary, and RIA Checkpoint. For details, visit the Drake Support website (Support.DrakeSoftware.com), Partner Programs page. These discounts are offered through the provider and your access to the materials will exist outside of the software. Searchable Selector Field The selector field, located at the bottom of all Data Entry Menus, can now search for screens by screen code, name, or keyword. Enter a screen name or form number to open a particular screen or enter a keyword to show a list of all associated screens. Select the desired screen and click Load Screen. Banking and Financial Services For more information about banking partners, visit the Partner Programs page on the Drake Support website (Support.DrakeSoftware.com). For more info and to apply, go to EOM.1040.com. BANKING PARTNERS Advent Refund Advantage EPS Financial Refundo Republic Bank and Trust River City Bank Tax Products Group Drake Hosted Everything you love about Drake Software, accessible from anywhere. Run your Drake desktop applications in the cloud with our new service, Drake Hosted. Drake Hosted takes care of the most critical IT tasks of running a tax office using Drake Software.

I show my current prices on my invoices and then include a Loyal Client Discount.

My point here is that as TAX PROFESSIONALS, our clients expect us to know more than just "they will probably be extended". They still expect us to warn them of what MIGHT happen, as well.

This has been my policy for all 7 major holidays for the past 30 years. We do not do ANY business on the Holidays for the reason mentioned in the picture. It would need to be life or death situation for us to do any business. On the other hand, I have been in line at 3:00AM on Friday after Thanksgiving to get some great electronics and technology deals.

I have never worked Black Friday either, and as a rule I don't shop that day because I hate crowds. But I am thoroughly disgusted with all of the stores that are now opening late on Thanksgiving day (8:00? not really that late). Can't they give their employees a little break? I miss the days when you had to plan ahead because almost everything was closed on Sunday.