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That's a very nice request, David. I'm glad you sent it, and would sincerely like to hear about the response you receive. Just to clarify for anyone else reading this and truly not trying to plug a product (because I do think the ATX payroll compliance module is superior), but in fairness, Drake's CWU module is provided to purchasers as part of their tax package and allows for creating and e-filing of the 941, 940, w-2s, and 1099s "on the fly" without having to use it for write up. What it doesn't do, for me at least, it doesn't produce an acceptable file for filing w-2s electronically for my state. I'm not surprised at ATX banning people that complain, no matter how small the complaint. They've done in past years over lesser "offenses" and was the big reason for their shutting down the site in 2007 as KC mentioned.

Oh dear, I didn't notice that they both were the same. They are fixed now!

Don't tease me with pictures! Arrrrrrgh!

Max, I don't know! The conflicting information is what is making this all so much more difficult. I can't answer about ATX, maybe someone else can chime in on that. Is it showing that the 8962 and 8965 are fully functional, ready for filing, and not still in draft form? My software has input screens that replicate the worksheets found in the form's instructions and will auto determine and fill in if code A is appropriate.

Great question, by the way!

Dammit, I have no money for chocolate yet! Someone send me some, and hurry, I'm getting desperate!

My apologies to David for making any suggestion about his choice of software, but not for deleting the pdf. Once he utilized the information to create his own page of questions, I did leave that text up in both this thread and the one in the ACA forum also. FWIW, Drake DOES have a problem with the direct scan of its materials. I spoke with a company representative this morning and he was shocked to see that its one support page, current organizer, and practice return are accessible by the public. He confirmed what I already know, that Drake's support section is NOT for public consumption and is meant to be for only purchasers of Drake software, and is accessible with a user name and password via their support link on their site. He said Drake copyrighted materials should NOT be included in seminars or posted online without their permission, and was distressed to learn that the specific material I was talking about is the ACA portion of the organizer because, obviously, this is the brand new portion of their current product. All of this information is being sent up to the powers that be about the support site and the materials being included in a seminar package, and he said that Drake always goes after those that use their materials without permission. Drake has their own complete training center, their own presenters, and host seminars all over the country and online for their users. They have no need for their materials to be spread or used by outsiders for marketing or to impress anyone, especially when they have no control over how that person will present their materials. Yeah, I need a lot of chocolate...and maybe a chaser of something else too!

Lucky you! None of my clients will be in until about mid-Feb or later.

KC, I left you and Eric a note in the moderator's section.

Tom, try Rev Proc 2014-41. The answer as to how to calculate the exact SEHI amount is in section 5. I don't know if the answer to your question, what happens to the rest of it, is in this rev proc; I didn't have time to read all of it. If others are not yet aware, one of the problems in determining the SEHI is that it is a circular formula when the PTC is involved with each amount affecting the other, and this rev proc has the formula to calculate the SEHI. I got to that through the IRS site, so if you or anyone want to use those to save time finding this rev proc, here they are: Rev Proc 2014-41 and IRS page that the above link came from. Hope this helps.

Thanks, Terry. Here are more additional safe links: Tax Tools on healthcare.gov has look up info for bronze and silver, allows the user to input the zip code and choose the geo area, and allows user to look up for multiple people, not just a single person. Is supposed to be available by mid-Jan Geographic rating areas by state provided by CMO.gov (the official govenment site - Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services) and Bronze and silver plan lookup by age and state as provided by Health Ins Marketplace & U.S. Dept of Health & Human Services. Make sure that age is selected correctly USING THE AGE AT THE TIME THE POLICY STARTED. This tool shows one line for both the bronze and silver costs without text and might be easier to use when we all get busier.

Drake organizer is NOT available online. If you look at the bottom left of that page you scanned and originally posted, do you not see the words "Copyright 2014"? That is why I removed your attachment here...twice, not because I don't want to share useful materials with others here. I'd have shared it myself if it was legal to do so and wouldn't be a violation of the TOS I've agreed to. I'll agree with you that Drake customer service is wonderful. Maybe you should ask for their permission before sharing copyright-protected materials. I'll send Drake an email to let them know. Thanks.

Yes, a paid seminar that you attended, David. I wonder if Drake Tax Software gave Mr. Bird permission to include their organizer pages in his handout materials, or if DTS is aware of this at all?

Yes, as you freely acknowledged above, that is an exact lift from Drake's organizer page without the formatting. It's copyright-protected material.

So everyone knows, it's still straight from Drake's organizer page, without the formatting. I agree completely with Jack. If you like that, purchase Drake! Other parts of Drake's organizer are also superior to that of ATX.

This is what I remember from using those older programs: the manual forms update feature was launched by clicking an icon on the menu bar that opened a screen where choices of the forms and states could be made. That screen had a check box at the top (maybe on the right?) that said something like "check for program updates" that allowed any available program updates to download in that same session along with the form updates. I'd make sure that is unchecked, and also make the appropriate selection/deselection in the preferences for shutting off the automatic updating of forms. What I can't remember is if there is another spot with a similar check box that needs to be unchecked besides on that manual forms update screen. Sorry the earliest year I have installed on my machine is 2009.

Have you received any official response? Don't you think CCHSFS is fully aware of their competitors' products? Have you considered another vendor or running dual programs? Hmmm, maybe that other one you mentioned would handle the ACA input more easily. I've deleted your pdf because it's not fair to those of us that have paid for the program for you to share the Drake organizer (copyrighted) on here publicly for anyone to download and use. Presumably, those pages were included in a seminar that you paid to attend, and as far as I know, that organizer isn't available freely on the internet. I'm not saying this just because I've paid for Drake, I'd be saying that about any vendor's proprietary product. If you'd used those organizer pages to then customize your own questionnaire, I'd feel differently about you sharing that.

When using the manual update feature in those earlier years by clicking an icon at the top, I remember there was a check box at the top (maybe on the right?) of the box that opened that said something like "check for program updates" that allowed those updates to download at the same time as form updates. I'd make sure that is unchecked, and also make the appropriate selection/deselection in the preferences for shutting off the automatic updating of forms. Sorry that's the best I can remember. I have only back to 2009 loaded on my machine at the current time. If that isn't correct, and since this is related to ATX and not Pro Series, you should post the question in the main forum in general chat.

Your friend should discuss this with his tax professional so that they can discuss the proper reporting of this income. Beyond what's already been posted, you won't get help here because this is a forum for tax professionals using the ATX tax software sold by CCH.

Jack, I meant Pacun was baiting us.

...or simply baiting an audience...and for what purpose?

No, I don't like any of it or the fact that I wasted my time with you. Lion and I just had several posts back and forth about answering questions for others, trying to help, and not doing research for others. I had the time today, and when I have the extra time I don't mind helping others on here and elsewhere that actually need some help. I certainly don't need to do it, and don't get anything out of it. It is one of my ways of giving to this community, to try to bring this forum to a higher plane from the tone we had going last year, and to put to rest some of the comments made by a few that this forum is unprofessional. If you don't really need help and are posting hypotheticals, maybe you should mark them as such or find some other way to indicate that directly rather than making vague references to holiday dates within the post.

Is this another one of your hypothetical questions that are only meant to test us here to see if someone would arrive at the correct answer, or something you really didn't need help with? It seems like you already had the answer, and your statement really comes off as rather smug and insulting to say that you are surprised at the correct answers given here.

I found the answer in Reg Sec 1.72(p)-1 in the Q & A section. Below are some excerpts that should help. The deemed distribution of $40K occurred on 2/14/14 and will be taxable in the 2014 year, not when the loan was made. Note that the references to the loan satisfying the requirements detailed in Q&A A-3 relate to the loan's terms meeting the IRS requirements, and this section does not apply to the OP's hypothetical scenario. (Note for anyone else reading this: there ARE times when the distribution would be taxable at the time the loan is made if it DOES violate the tax law as described in A-3, but this is NOT the case with OP's fact pattern). OP's answer and an example is found in A-10. PART 1—INCOME TAXES (CONTINUED) §1.72(p)-1 Loans treated as distributions.The questions and answers in this section provide guidance under section 72(p) pertaining to loans from qualified employer plans (including government plans and tax-sheltered annuities and employer plans that were formerly qualified). The examples included in the questions and answers in this section are based on the assumption that a bona fide loan is made to a participant from a qualified defined contribution plan pursuant to an enforceable agreement (in accordance with paragraph (b )of Q&A-3 of this section), with adequate security and with an interest rate and repayment terms that are commercially reasonable. (The particular interest rate used, which is solely for illustration, is 8.75 percent compounded annually.) In addition, unless the contrary is specified, it is assumed in the examples that the amount of the loan does not exceed 50 percent of the participant's nonforfeitable account balance, the participant has no other outstanding loan (and had no prior loan) from the plan or any other plan maintained by the participant's employer or any other person required to be aggregated with the employer under section 414(b ), (c ) or (m), and the loan is not excluded from section 72(p) as a loan made in the ordinary course of an investment program as described in Q&A-18 of this section. The regulations and examples in this section do not provide guidance on whether a loan from a plan would result in a prohibited transaction under section 4975 of the Internal Revenue Code or on whether a loan from a plan covered by title I of the Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974 (88 Stat. 829) (ERISA) would be consistent with the fiduciary standards of ERISA or would result in a prohibited transaction under section 406 of ERISA. Q-10: If a participant fails to make the installment payments required under the terms of a loan that satisfied the requirements of Q&A-3 of this section when made, when does a deemed distribution occur and what is the amount of the deemed distribution? A-10: (a) Timing of deemed distribution. Failure to make any installment payment when due in accordance with the terms of the loan violates section 72(p)(2)(C ) and, accordingly, results in a deemed distribution at the time of such failure. However, the plan administrator may allow a cure period and section 72(p)(2)(C ) will not be considered to have been violated if the installment payment is made not later than the end of the cure period, which period cannot continue beyond the last day of the calendar quarter following the calendar quarter in which the required installment payment was due. ( b ) Amount of deemed distribution. If a loan satisfies Q&A-3 of this section when made, but there is a failure to pay the installment payments required under the terms of the loan (taking into account any cure period allowed under paragraph (a) of this Q&A-10), then the amount of the deemed distribution equals the entire outstanding balance of the loan (including accrued interest) at the time of such failure. © Example. The following example illustrates the rules in paragraphs (a) and ( b ) of this Q&A-10 and is based upon the assumptions described in the introductory text of this section: Example. (i) On August 1, 2002, a participant has a nonforfeitable account balance of $45,000 and borrows $20,000 from a plan to be repaid over 5 years in level monthly installments due at the end of each month. After making all monthly payments due through July 31, 2003, the participant fails to make the payment due on August 31, 2003 or any other monthly payments due thereafter. The plan administrator allows a three-month cure period. (ii) As a result of the failure to satisfy the requirement that the loan be repaid in level installments pursuant to section 72(p)(2)(C ), the participant has a deemed distribution on November 30, 2003, which is the last day of the three-month cure period for the August 31, 2003 installment. The amount of the deemed distribution is $17,157, which is the outstanding balance on the loan at November 30, 2003. Alternatively, if the plan administrator had allowed a cure period through the end of the next calendar quarter, there would be a deemed distribution on December 31, 2003 equal to $17,282, which is the outstanding balance of the loan at December 31, 2003.

Someone will soon run out of "likes".