OldJack Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 More than 700 tax returns were filed in 2010 from a single residential address in Belle Glade, Fla. The IRS reportedly issued over a million dollars in refunds to the Belle Glade address that year. Either one particular home in South Florida is really, really crowded, or there's something shady going on. In 2010, 741 tax returns were filed to the federal government from a single address in Belle Glade, Fla., the South Florida Sun-Sentinel reports. In response, the Internal Revenue Service issued over $1 million in combined tax refunds to that address, which is, y'know, embarrassing. Most or all of those returns were probably filed by identity thieves, and the Belle Glade case isn't even the worst of it, according to a report issued last month by the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration. That report notes that in addition to the Belle Glade home, there was an address in Tampa that sent in 518 tax returns and got back almost $1.8 million in refunds, and an address in Lansing, Mich., sent in 2,137 tax returns and got more than $3.3 million back. The returns from these addresses all bore the hallmarks of identity theft, according to TIGTA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack from Ohio Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 And we are supposed to "verify" the accuracy and "acceptability" of clients receiving EIC or we will be fined.$500!! It does not take a very skilled program writer to look for duplications of an address. The IRS is a dichotomoy of dichotomies!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jainen Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 >>look for duplications of an address<< We all want the IRS to process our refund immediately, and check the return later. But we want the IRS to check everybody else's returns before issuing refunds. Imagine if you were the IRS Commisioner--do you think making taxpayers wait six to twelve weeks would increase or decrease compliance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelmars Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 MY office might be the next one on this list. My partner uses our address for most of the business entities we do as well as many high net worth individuals that have multiple homes. His logic is this way we are sure to get the notices timely. I guess we have 300 returns from this address. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAMalody Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 MY office might be the next one on this list. My partner uses our address for most of the business entities we do as well as many high net worth individuals that have multiple homes. His logic is this way we are sure to get the notices timely. I guess we have 300 returns from this address. . ....which may be why there is no real effective address matching program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jainen Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 >>which may be why<< They could get around that problem by first matching return address to PTIN or preparer address. Beyond that, the database does already exist. It's big but they could cut through it pretty quick with zip codes. Then what--let the first one go through, or the first five? There are plenty of legitimate multiples, like nursing homes and shelters and communes and general delivery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack from Ohio Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 <<<There are plenty of legitimate multiples, like nursing homes and shelters and communes and general delivery.>>> Ok, granted there are many situations where addresses are the same. If the threshold is set at 100, there would have been some review of those and, if the reviewers are savvy enough, the problems could have been spotted, and fraudulent payments stopped. I doubt that 741 people living at the same address without apartment numbers, room numbers etc, would exist. If the IRS WANTED TO address this, they could hire more competent programmers and this could be sorted by so many different factors in the seconds or minutes it would take the computer to do the comparison. I have a son who is a programming engineer, and he informed me that cross checking many databases for duplicates and then comparing duplicates for other parameters to look for fraud is NOT difficult programming. So processing a given return is slowed by 2-3 minutes for this process before being cleared, or set aside for further review is not "extensive delay" if the programming and supporting programs are competent and of the right quality. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelmars Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 all they did to do is have a legal address box and a mailing address box on the returns 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack from Ohio Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 all they did to do is have a legal address box and a mailing address box on the returns Why bring logic and common sense into a discussion about issues with tax returns and IRS? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max W Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 If it could be handled by software, the IRS would most likely have done it by now. But the problem is the IRS does not have the matching information until July or August., so even if they were to flag the multiple addresses, they would have no way of knowing if the W-2's submitted with the tax returns were legitimate or not until the matching information from the employer's W-2's comes in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jainen Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 >>If the IRS WANTED TO address this,,,<< Why would they want that? They need to keep us all twisted up about bureaucratic inefficiency so we can't follow what's really going on. They used to keep us hating single moms with EIC, but we're starting to see our own friends and family there. So now it's zombie-apocalypse soul-snatching identity thieves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max W Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 A lot of these fraudulent returns come from prisons. Well, guess what!. Belle Glades, FL is home to a correctional facility. Seems to me that the IRS could flag all the prison addresses and hold those returns until verified. After all, those folks aren't going anywhere in a hurry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jainen Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 >>IRS could flag all the prison addresses<< That's what I meant about wanting IRS to look closer at returns that aren't like mine. But actually, this time I agree with profiling. Anyone who lives in a gated community should be audited! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don in Upstate NY Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 Seems to me that the IRS could flag all the prison addresses and hold those returns until verified. After all, those folks aren't going anywhere in a hurry. Your wish may have already been granted. The Korean Free Trade Act (S 1642) requires all prisons to report the names and SSNs of inmates serving sentances of one year or more to the IRS. This will save $122 million over ten years. In fact, the IRS could do a lot of things, if they had the manpower and budget to support them and they were a priority. Obviously they DO have the software to detect and enumerate multiple returns sent to the same address, otherwise we wouldn't know about the specific problems identified in the news release. Ultimately, the IRS does what congress and the executive branch tell it to do. For the new few years they have additional funding to hire more employees to enact the procedures required by the Affordible Health Care Law. I wouldn't count on too many extra projects being added to their plate except for the usual changes required by political year-end tinkering with the law, and specific problems of over-riding national interest (like taxing of Olympic medals,) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Same sort of thing happens with voter fraud -- hundreds of people registered to vote from single addresses. Big favorites are business parks, warehouses, and abandoned lots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jainen Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 >>This will save $122 million over ten years.<< Sure, big savings--let's see, that's 12 million per year, less than $250K per state. How much will it cost to add the new administrative procedure? A total waste, because the government ALREADY has the information over at Social Security and SEPARATELY at Justice .Department. But I guess some data processing company made a campaign contribution so there's a little earmark in a foreign trade bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnH Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Well, with there being something in the range of 10,000 large prisons in the US, it would be possible to electronically flag returns claiming refunds at those addresses for additional review. Might it be worth $12 million a year in savings to take this extra step? Nah, probably more trouble than it's worth... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcjenkins Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 http://www.accountingtoday.com/news/irs-employees-discouraged-identifying-fraudulent-itin-applications-tigta-63588-1.html?ET=webcpa:e5941:61496a:&st=email&utm_source=editorial&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=WebCPA_Daily_080912 Note that the real problem here is that some in the IRS MANAGEMENT LEVEL were [are?] actually discouraging those honest employees who were trying to actually do their job and stop fraud. And of course, the IRS response mentions not a single word about even reprimanding those supervisors, much less firing any of them. We are talking about BILLIONS here, folks, not mere millions. And for those who cal it 'stimulus', keep in mind that we are talking here just of the ITIN fraud, which means that much of those billions will be going to Mexico's economy rather than ours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneInAlabama Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 >>We are talking about BILLIONS here, folks, not mere millions<< I don't know the difference between a billion and a million. Both are impossible numbers for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jainen Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 >>the difference between a billion and a million<< A billion is a thousand times bigger than a million. Since the US. population is 300 million, a million tax dollars is less than a penny per person. A billion tax dollars is three bucks each. Now, a trillion is a thousand times a billion. So saving three bucks each would only reduce the federal budget deficit by 1/10 of one percent (assuming they don't just spend it on something else). That's why all this is just political scare tactics with little genuine fiscal impact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldJack Posted August 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 I could use 3 bucks for my things rather than giving it to the federal government. Lets face it, the federal government will spend more than they have regardless of my 3 bucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacun Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 I live in a big building and my address is something like, 4302 Massachusetts Avenue, NW, Apartment A343C. If I want to receive a bunch of refunds at this address, I could use: 4302 Massachusetts Avenue, NW, Apartment A343C 4302 Mass Avenue, NW, Apartment A343C 4302 Massachusetts Ave, NW, Apartment A343C 4302 Massachusetts Avenue NW, Apartment A343C 4302 Massachusetts Avenue NW Apartment A343C 4302 Massachusetts Avenue, NW, Apt A343C 4302 Massachusetts Avenue, NW, Apt. A343C 4302 Massachusetts Avenue, NW, Apartment 343C 4302 Massachusetts Avenue, NW, # 343C 4302 Massachusetts Avenue NW, # 343C 4302 Massachusetts Ave NW, Apartment A343C 4302 Massachusetts Ave NW Apartment A343C 4302 Massachusetts Ave NW Apt A343C 4302 Massachusetts Ave NW Apt. A343C And many, many more addresses. For a computer, each address above (and the many more that I haven't written down) is unique. So, a computer program will have a lot of difficulties identifying the fact that these addresses are the same. Now, they will have to audit all my skyscaper neighbors if they want to audit all the address that start with: 4302 Massachusetts Avenue 4302 Massachusetts Ave. 4302 Massachusetts Ave 4302 Mass Avenue 4302 Mass Ave. 4302 Mass Ave This question is for the mathematicians on this board, how many unique address will I generate with variables I have used on the example and the ones below? I could also use Unit A343C, Unit 343C, Suite A343C, Suite A343, Apartment A343C, Apartment A343, Apt A343C, Apt A343, Apt. A343C, Apt. A343C, Apt #A343, Apt # A343C, Apartment # A343C, Apartment # A343 This is without counting that I could spell Massachusetts as Masachusetts, Massachussets, Massachusetts, Massachussetts, Mass, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack from Ohio Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 The Post Office already has this figured out as well as being able to optically scan hand written addresses as well. Even sloppy almost illegible writing. Computers can easily be programmed to spot those as same addresses. Your Microsoft word program scans the entire dictionary every time you type a word, and it does it in the time it takes you to push the space bar. Nice try, but those would be child's play for todays computers and programs. Just look at the Post Office.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneInAlabama Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 I'm still stuck on doubling a penny every day for 30 days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcjenkins Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 http://www.pagetutor.com/trillion/index.html This is a visual comparison that is one of the best I have seen. And this is the same visual method of showing the national debt. http://www.pagetutor.com/trillion/usdebt.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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