Should I purchase ATX??

[swgordon]

I currently work at a CPA firm and use Prosystems fx and I love it. It seems that it can do anything that is needed of it. However it's very expensive and cost prohibitive for me. I'm looking to buy something that I can use to do returns on the side with the hopes of eventually going out on my own full time. I want to start out with the right program as I dont want to get something and then have to migrate after 2 years. Would you recommend ATX to someone starting out? It seems like it had good reviews on the AICPA annual tax software write up but I just keep reading bad things about it in alot of the message boards that I have visited. But like anything, the small amount of people that don't like something are going to complain and the majority that do remain silent. I got a demo and so far I like it, but I have not played with it too much. Is ATX worth a shot or should I maybe try Lacerte (I also got the demo and so far it's a bit confusing) or just suck it up and pay the money to start out with ProSystems. I have tried Proseries and I think it is absolutely horrible. I bought the PPR version last year and tried to do a couple of returns on it and ended up just doing them on ProSystems instead because it was so confusing.

The things that I have read about ATX is that customer service is horrendous and it's not good for complicated returns (complicated K1s, etc..).

[BulldogTom]

I have been using ATX since 2001 filing season. I migrated from Proseries (which at the time was a very good program, but expensive). I love the ATX software, but I have learned to use it over the years. Initially, the software was not great, but the support was excellent, responsive, and always found a solution (even if it required a funky workaround) to every tax situation. What I like the most was the integration of the MAX program. It had every form you could need. Over the years, the support has declined to the point that it is not as useful as the community board you are on. However, the quality of the program has improved. They have removed features (depreciation) from Max and moved them to stand alone modules that must be purchased. There is a thought that the payroll functionality that was integrated last year and is now split off but not separately charged will be an additional cost in the future.

Depending on the complexity of the returns you do, and your tolerance for a learning curve, ATX might be a great choice for you. I prepare approx 200 returns, mostly individuals with Sch. A, D, C, E schedules. I prepare a couple of S corps, partnerships and trusts every year, but nothing very complicated. The software performs very well in this environment.

What the software will not do is link between returns. So if you are preparing the partnership return and the partners individual returns, don't look for the slick features that will populate the partner's returns with the K-1 information. Once you finish the 1065 or 1120S, you then open the partner's return and it asks you if you want to import the K-1s.

The diagnostics in ATX leave something to be desired. If you are going to use staff that are not fully qualified to prepare a return, it is not a good choice. You have to know what to expect the outcome of the return to be to see if you have the proper result on the ATX output. If your staff does not have the experience or expertise to know that something is wrong, the software will not tell you it is wrong.

You used to get more than you paid for with ATX Max. Now you get what you paid for.

Just my humble opinion.

Tom

Hollister, CA

Edited December 6, 2012 by kcjenkins
to correct

[Lion EA]

If you already love ProSystem fx, talk to your sales rep about how to make it work for you financially. I buy it Pay-Per-Return to hold my costs down.

I did not like Lacerte as well. Ultra Tax might be a possibility for you, but in the same price range.

Try your most complex returns on ATX to see if it meets your needs now and as your clients' financial lives get more complex over time. Prepare returns with Kiddy Tax, AMT, sales of business assets, multi-state returns, whatever you have or expect to have based on your clientele.

I have a lot of investors with thick Forms 1099-B. I love to import Excel spreadsheets with a click. Importing K-1s is automatic as is Kiddy Tax. ProSystem fx is a huge time-saver for data entry as well as proof reading.

Customer service is outstanding with ProSystem fx, important to me as a sole proprietor. And, the diagnostics are excellent.

For my practice, ProSystem fx is worth every penny. I scrimp on furniture, paper, folders, work from home, etc., but buy the best software and the best education I can afford.

[swgordon]

Tom, so you are saying that ATX won't maintain and update depreciation on an annual basis within the software??

Lion, the PPR quote that I got for Prosystems was around $80 for individual and $95 for business after efiling. Plus there was other fees for efile modules for each state, etc.. It seemed like it would cost me close to $4000 just to be able to do the 30 or so returns that I expect to do this year.

[rfassett]

I love ATX and have used it since 1995 or there abouts. It has evolved into a very respectable program. I will correct something Tom said above, the program does link between returns and does populate the K-1 simply by importing that info which is slam dunk easy. The schedule D info that Lion imports from excel can also be imported into ATX. I imported over three hundred stock transactions into a return this past year and it took less than five minutes. Of course we don't tell the client that. As to the support issue, I have never experienced the negative issues that others seem to have experienced. The few times that I have needed support, the calls where answered promptly and support stayed with me until the issue was resolved. My practice does in excess of 600 returns running the course from 1040s to 1041s to 1065s to 1120s and 1120Ss to 990s most of which have something that makes them complicated. I do one consolidated 1120 and lots and lots of multi-states and e-file everything I can.

[michaelmars]

Tom is incorrect, they added the importing of K-1 data to the 1040's 2 years ago. As for depreciation is maintained and updated year to year but what stupidly got eliminated is the ability to print out an asset history where you could see the deductions for the whole life. Now you just get the current year and the next year's.

I use all three, prosystem fx untill 2 years ago then switched to lacerte at my firm. I use ATX for my separate practice and do around 300 returns in it. You need to know taxes for ATX especially your states. A federal deduction for example of long term health care will not trigger the coressponding credit on NY. You need to know to enter it manually. Letter editing and global formating sucks but they say its greatly improved for 2012. Likewise printing in horrible but they say it is better for 2012. You need to select on each return what you want printed or you get 100 pages of worksheets as the default. I spend longer selecting and printing a return than doing some simple ones. Multi-state returns also are not integrated so you have to do each one yourself and a minor change to your 1040 causes you to redo the states and recalculate the credits.

On the other hand, every form is available, input is super fast and easy, efile works flawlessly and the price point isn't bad compared to the others.

[swgordon]

Michael,

I find that to be the case with the states even with Prostyems fx. Most of those state credits have to be manually entered in the state forms section for them to show up on the state returns so that's not a big deal. What I've heard so far makes me think it might be a good fit for me. The one thing I'm concerned about is the diagnostics. Will it tell you if there is a form missing, not eligible for efiling, or do you just have to know??

[Gail in Virginia]

Usually when I close and reopen a return, or when I run the diagnostics, if a required form is missing ATX will add it. I have in the past used TaxWise and Drake before going to ATX, and of the three I prefer ATX. Drake has great customer support but for me the interface was not what I wanted. To actually see the tax forms I had completed required going from the input screen to the tax form screen and I like to see the actual tax return information on the actual forms as I enter it. TaxWise had some good points, but ATX provides more forms for the same money, and in the past has provided some payroll oriented forms that other tax programs did not. I don't know how to really compare diagnostics because in our office we don't rely on the program diagnostics. Good luck with whatever program you chose!

[BulldogTom]

Sorry about the mis information on K-1. I don't do a lot of that and never noticed it was a feature. I only have a couple and I just got used to entering the information directly from the K-1 I just printed.

Tom

Hollister, CA

[rfassett]

I hear you Tom. I use ATX's write-up package which can be mapped to import directly to the return. But before that became available I had gotten pretty efficient at entering the trial balance to the return manually. I can input a corporate return in less than 20 minutes and know where everything went. I suppose mapping has its benefits but I like my method.

[joanmcq]

I used Profx when I worked for Grant Thornton, and have used ATX in my own practice since inception in 2002. I've also had the nonpleasure of using Lacerte and Proseries in other contexts and test drove Drake. ATX has been generally good for my biz, although the diagnostics are not as good as some of the other programs and the print interface can be a pain. But you do get diagnostics if a form cannot be efiled, if it is a draft version, if an update is needed and many other things. I've noticed the diagnostics improving over the years.

I went to the CCH Small Firms conference and while conversing with the sales reps and programmers, I mentioned the one same-sex couple return I had that was so complex, it really stretched the limits of what can be done in ATX. Well, it could be done, but required quite a bit of manual imput and calculations, and a LOT of time. They told me of a program they were looking at starting by which an ATX user could get PPR from Profx without paying any additional fees except for the standard return fee. That way I could do my most complex return(s) on Profx while using ATX for the bulk of them. I haven't followed up on it yet, but mean to.

I do about 250 returns right now and am at pretty much my limit for how many I can do on my own, especially with the amount of down time that is my requirement for working the crazy hours I do on season.

[jainen]

>>tried to do a couple of returns<<

Any new program will have a learning curve. Don't decide until you have worked all the way through a dozen or more. Start with extremely easy ones that won't stump you on the input, because you also need to look at the end product. Are you satisfied with how it prints, how it archives, and of course how it invoices? Look VERY carefully at your diagnostics and error-checking. You have gotten used to relying on this in Prosystems fx, but with anything new you may have to develop new procedures for quality control.

An outside-the-box idea is to use the CPA firm's network license! You need to coordinate your new practice anyway, so you don't compete with your employer (which would be unethical because you have a duty of loyalty). You don't want them firing you when they spot your name on the public list of e-file providers, which they very likely check as a normal matter of market research each year. And who knows--they may appreciate your self-improvement efforts, especially since it gives them a trusted professional to refer clients they can't afford to handle for whatever reason.

Personally, I went the other way. I brought my three dozen long-time clients to my employer this year. Independent practice is not easy or cheap any more.

[mcb39]

I have also used ATX since the mid 1990's. I wouldn't think of changing as long as it stays cost effective.

[kcjenkins]

Let me clear up a couple of things. Depreciation does carry over, its just that after CCH bought ATX, they decided to offer a Fixed Asset Manager as a separate product, and they removed a couple of features from Max, like the asset history and now provide that only in the FA module. ATX still provides more forms than ANY other software. It's diagnostics are not as detailed as the 3K and up software, but still OK for any experienced professional, IMHO.

As for the support, I think you need to know two things. Many of us on here go way back to early days of ATX. I was a user of a 3K+ software myself until it was bought by Intuit and killed off. When I was determined not to use an Intuit product, I found ATX. What I found was a program without a few of the conveniences, but still a great program.

But what was truly amazing about ATX at that time was their people. Support was FANTASTIC. They were not only very good, they were dedicated to providing their users exceptional service. I remember one night, that first year, when I called them at 8 pm my time over a problem that I had caused. That's 9 pm their time. Tech support worked with me for 4 hours straight to help me fix the problem. A problem I'd caused, not their program's fault. Not a word about the fact that they were past closing time for support. Once it was fixed, I was ecstatic. But totally amazed that the next day I got a followup call just to make sure the problem was fixed.

They also had a process that allowed us to connect to the specific programmer for a specific form, giving direct feedback. They were extremely responsive to what we asked for. If we asked them to add a state form, for example, that they did not have, they almost always were able to provide it for us. And their Community Forum was monitored by a guy named William, that we still miss!!!! He was always there to help us, either setting us toward the right answer when we had a question or sending us to the tech person who could. It was the best support of any software for anything, that I had [make that have ever, to this day] ever known So when we sometimes gripe about the current support, it's probably less that CCH support is not good, rather that we miss the extremely superior level it had when Steve and Glynn Willett still owned it. Some of the support team had been there when they worked on the original program in the Willet's home. We compare today's adequate support to those days, and just have to gripe a bit now and then.

[DevM]

I have also been using ATX (MAX) since mid to late 90s. As long as it is cost effective, I wouldn't change it. How ever I haven't tried any ohter programs in last few years.

[Jack from Ohio]

kcjenkins could not have stated it better!!

ATX customer support was 5 gold star all the time!!

CCH, 1.5 bronze stars.

William and his crew were irreplacable, and when CCH bought ATX, many of them were shafted big time!!

[JohnH]

I usually test-drive one other program each year just to keep my powder dry. But I keep sticking with ATX because they have by far the best product FOR THE PRICE. Drake is a close second, but I personally still prefer ATX MAX and recommend it highly.

[kcjenkins]

Clearly, price is not the only consideration, but it is still an important one. And of all the programs I've looked at in it's price range, Max is the most complete and so, for the single, competent professional, it provides a system that will handle every possible type of return, plus payroll, it even has marketing forms built in, like customer referral forms.

[mcb39]

Clearly, price is not the only consideration, but it is still an important one. And of all the programs I've looked at in it's price range, Max is the most complete and so, for the single, competent professional, it provides a system that will handle every possible type of return, plus payroll, it even has marketing forms built in, like customer referral forms.

That is it in a nutshell!

[taxxcpa]

All of the ATX users obviously prefer ATX or they would switch. I left ATX after it changed ownership and they got rid of William Tasker and shut down their user forum before the end of the tax season.

Although they may have improved it, the updates did not install automatically, and sometimes I would do a return, but have a delay in receiving the signed Form 8879, and when I got it the e-filing would get rejected because of an update I had not installed.

I liked most of the features of ATX. At one time I had to do CA sales tax returns which only ATX offers as far as I know.

I switched to Drake which has an excellent forum and undoubtedly the best customer service in the business. There is now a "forms-based" entry mode for Form 1040 returns, which I use if I can't remember a form number. The biggest complaint I've heard about Drake is its handling of Ohio city returns.

Drake provides for e-filing of all type returns including 940s, 941s, 1099s and W-2s. It also has a write-up program which is very poor for write-up work, but great for payroll work and preparation of quarterly payroll taxes. Drake can be set to automatically send Form 9325 to your clients from an e-mail at a 1040.com e-mail address Drake provides you.

The biggest problem with getting used to Drake are the input screens, but if you use the Forms-based input, that solves the problem.

Another thing Drake offers is Macros . I can click ALT-P and it automatically generate a PIN for the tax preparer, the taxpayer and the spouse. Clicking my ALT-I macro triggers a maco that checks all the boxes indicating "no foreign interest." You can even create a macro to check all the boxes on Form 8879 for the EIC. I have some macos that do several things all at once like entering the PINs, "no foreign interest' and any other information common to most returns.

ATX and Drake are probably the two best choices unless you have a large enough practice to justify a program costing several times as much.