JohnH

He could give them a form 1040 populated with his name, address, etc, and enter zeros on all the appropriate lines.

I agree. If I prepared returns claiming EITC, my fees would increase tremendously. Problem is, I'd have trouble deciding on a fee structure that would adequately protect me.

Here's an interesting link to an article on the subject matter of this thread: http://www.cpapracticeadvisor.com/news/12065684/average-income-tax-preparation-fees-increased-in-2015?utm_source=CPA+Tax+%26+Compliance&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=CCSN150414002 I like all the discussion about "averages". Reminds me of my college statistics class, where the instructor said on the first day: "If I place one hand on a hot burner and the other in the freezer, then on average I should be feeling pretty good."

I view this more as "work expanding to fill the time allotted". I don't see it as any sort of measure of efficiency, and it certainly isn't having any positive effect on your bottom line. But I also understand that there are non-financial aspects to any business practice, and we each need to be comfortable with how we operate.

Have you ever considered penalty risk in your pricing? A penalty on a return with a $600,000 W-2 would likely be much greater than a penalty on a return with a $40,000 W-2. None of us expect penalties to happen, and we certainly don't expect them to be our fault if they do, but we still need to allow for the possibility. Now if your fee schedule already has this risk built into it based on the $600K W-2, then you're doing just fine on the $40K return.

I agree, and I think that has always been IRS's reason for going after I/C designations. After all, roughly the same amount off money is paid into SocSec/Medicare regardless of whether it comes via S/E tax or employee withholding + employer match. IRS wants withholding at the source so they don't find themselves chasing people who haven't set aside the proper amounts or didn't pay estimated tax. The only other issue at stake with I/C classification is Federal Unemployment Tax. But since it is tied to benefits, there would likely be no net gain or loss of revenue to the government if more people were I/C's and thus not eligible to receive Unemployment benefits.

Sure there's an extension of time time to pay. I didn't say it was without cost, but the cost is actually fairly modest, especially for a taxpayer who has to borrow the money. Anyhow, a taxpayer who files the return without full payment is in exactly the same situation as a taxpayer who applies for an extension and then files without fulll payment. The only difference is, the collections clock begins ticking six months sooner. Costs (penalties & interest) are basically the same. But IRS charges that FTP penalty, which when combined with the interest charge adds up to about 8-1/2 % effective APR. They bluff taxpayerrs and tax preparers with the dreaded "Penalty" word, and common sense goes out the window.

IRS either gets confused by their own rules, or perhaps they know the difference but they often bluff. Preparing a return is also not the same thing as filing a return, although the IRS has fooled a multitude of tax preparers into thinking it is. Also, they say "an extension of time to file a return is not an extension of time to pay", but as a practical matter that's exactly what it is.

Any time works for me. I say schedule it when it is convenient for you.

Here are a few suggestions. Pay attention to the speed. Notice such things as load speed, how quickly you can navigate within the program, how fast you can change from one client to the other through the client manager, and how easily you can swtich between the input mode and forms display. Approach it from the standpoint that "fast and nimble" is normal & expected. Don't try to make it act like ATX (in exactly the same way that you wouldn''t expect ATX to act like Drake). It is a totally different environment, which I think is a huge plus. Run backups a few times and notice how they''re done before you can blink. It will perform in exactly the same way when you begin to load the program with client data. You'll probably notice that you don't need a NASA-quality computer to run Drake; it's very resource-efficient. There are some macros embedded in the program - you should run one or two of the simple ones just to see how they work. These are a valuable feature in the program once you learn how to use them. You can automate many tasks affter spending the time to learn how macros work in Drake - they are a valuable feature. Finally, and most importantly, I'd suggest envisioning yourself with 15-25% more free time, which you can use to take on additional work (or take the time off if you wish). I've heard skeptical questions about this assertion on several occasions and other forums, but I stand by it. The only people who make this discovery are those who are willing to invest the time, change their thinking, and apply thier reasoning skills in making the best business decision.

I completely agree with the fee issue. Most preparers I know tend to undercharge, so there is lots of room for them to increase fees. But as much as I agree with the fee increase approach, i disagree to the same exten with respect to Drake software. Given the quantum leaps in speed and efficiency Drake clealry provides, I'd have to say that anyone who ends up hating Drake also hates earning more money. It really is just that simple. I have found Drake to be very intuitive once a person devotes the time to reach a reasonable level of software transparency. But the learning curve can be steep if one approaches Drake with a closed mind. A bias toward the crutch of forms-based data entry is also a barrier which some people just can't overcome. But once the user opens their mind and begins to evaluate the entire user experience, it is impossible to ignore the efficiency aspect. So the decision is less about bells and whistles and more about answering the business question of "What makes me the most money?". In my case, that's a major issue since my reason for being in business is to mximize profits, and is the reason I'm convinced that Drake is the answer in this price range. SO it offfers anyone increasing their fees to also increase their profitablity exponentially, if they have the courage and business acumen to do so.

"I'm busy" is an excellent reply. And if you're really into economy of language, you can cut the number of words by 50%. Just respond with "no".

He actually earns the same as w-2 to employee who is paid about $35k with no benefits and no unemployment compensation coverage. Everything else is just a matter of making the proper estimated tax payments in the absence of withholding.

Extensions take Apr 15 off the table and can make it just another day at the office (or away from the office, as the case may be).

Last extension filed at 4:45 on the 14th. Total of 39 extensions filed (including my own). Hope everyone has a manageable day on the 15th.

Interesting. I just checked the voice mail and found that we had another scam call from a fake IRS collector. (Not the same bozo who called a couple of weeks ago & left a threatening message) Guess they are thinking Apr 14 is a good day to really scare people.

I wonder if that is one of the calls I sent to voice mail this morning. Maybe I'll check it tomorrow. In any case, I absolutely LOVE caller ID on our office phones. Almost everything out of our service area, all known telemarketers, and all 800 number calls are sent to VM without answering. Sure has made our office more efficient.

I'll bet he knows how to spell the word "extension". If not, I assume you're going to teach him.

Most of my clients have been with me a long time, so I just include a bill when I mail their return to them. I'm not keen on sitting on returns and then having to deal with a last-minute scramble rear the deadline. When the return is finished, I want it in the mail and on the way to the client so they can sign & file it. That keeps things simple and keeps them out of my office so I can get some work done. But even in those rare situations when I take on a new client, I still send their return with the bill. I'd like to know if I can trust them in the future. I've lost a few over the years (very few), but I think its a good way to weed out the ones I don't want to do busines with going forward. If they cheat me out of a couple of hundred dollars, they will never get the chance to cheat me out of a thousand. Of course, if i had lots of turnover I'd have to follow a different collections model.

That has been my experience as well. I've met one or two exceptions in 40 years or so of tax preparation, but most of my clergy clients have been interested in conducting themselves in accordance with the entire 13th chapter of Romans. I've often had to push them to get them to take advantage of the opportunities available to them. They are aware of their ultimate responsibility to their boss, and they are well aware of the effect an IRS problem can have on their witness to others.

Off to the beach on the afternoon of the 15th, after I spend the morning reviewing extensions. Maybe back to the office on the 21st (or later, depending upon my attitude at that time)

It's drawing to a close, folks.

CLIENT: "I spent way too much of it on that outrageous tax preparation fee. Oh, and also some went to the new boat & motorcycle."

If you switch to Drake, start planning what you're going to do with all your free time and excess computing power. It's fast as lightning and you don't need a computer capable of launching the space shuttle. Actually, you could plan on taking on more business and therefore making more money with the time you free up, but only if that seems like a desirable business plan for you.

I agree with everything said. This forum is the most valuable online tax community by far. Thanks everyone.