Free Advice-Just Another Vent

[MsTabbyKats]

Last season I did a very simple 1040-NR for someone in RI.

Long story short....she gave my name to someone...who is trying to amend his girlfriends 1040-NR, which was done incorrectly.

Now the bf & the gf (not my client) are both unemployed and need every penny. The additional refund is about $300. (My fee would probably be about $150-250...depending on if the state is involved..which it probably is).

That's the background.

The bf has been driving me nuts asking for free advice. I did a "sample 1040NR" (with the real numbers)...and told him exactly what to do on the 8843...although he didn't to what I said.

Now he sent me the 1040-X to review....completely wrong.......and I told him that the reps at IRS get paid to help people who fill out their own returns.

He also keeps asking me about getting her FICA back (I never saw the W-2...I don't know if it was even withheld)...and I've told him many times that I don't get involved with that because the IRS makes it very difficult etc (I haven't need to to one for a few years...and as I recall...they wanted all kinds of documentation).

Oh....just another vent!

But, what do others do when asked for "free advice" that becomes way more time consuming than doing the return? (And it's a slap in the face to the paying client who gave him my number too.)

[ILLMAS]

You should have a SAVE ME buddy, I get many calls for free advice, I have an office so all my calls are via the office phone, I don't use my cell phone during office hours, so what I do is I text my good friend "Save me" and she calls my cell phone right away. I put the cell phone to up the telephone and tell whomever is on the line, I need to let you go, I have a very important call I need to attend. Then I just simply thank my friend for saving me, works every time.

[mcb39]

I just got off the phone with one. YIKES!!! Today must be the day. Phone has been ringing steady. Fax this, check that, I never got my refund, I don't believe I have made a penny today. Am going to run away from home!

[MsTabbyKats]

You should have a SAVE ME buddy, I get many calls for free advice, I have an office so all my calls are via the office phone, I don't use my cell phone during office hours, so what I do is I text my good friend "Save me" and she calls my cell phone right away. I put the cell phone to up the telephone and tell whomever is on the line, I need to let you go, I have a very important call I need to attend. Then I just simply thank my friend for saving me, works every time.

Cute...I do that for my husband because he doesn't know how end conversations.

But, this is by e-mail. I feel kind of bad, because I know they need every penny....but I don't want to end up with more "free referrals".

I get enough "call her because she's cheap" referrals as it is.

[Jack from Ohio]

I only give very general tax advice or information for free. PERIOD. Leeches do not ever lose their apatite.

Stop being the "nice gal" and expect to get paid for the skills, knowledge and experience you have.

[Guest Taxed]

>>> Now he sent me the 1040-X to review....completely wrong.

I may have posted on another thread regarding this matter but I have a policy of NOT reviewing a self prepared tax return and offer my free advice. It is for basic liability reason on my attorney's advice.

Some of my friends and even distant family members have tried that on me since i got in the business and to keep family peace i end up preparing the entire return gratis! I must do over a dozen free returns for family, friends, kid's friends each season.

Some family and friends show their appreciation by sending a gift card or inviting us for dinner etc.

[Catherine]

You should have a SAVE ME buddy, I get many calls for free advice, I have an office so all my calls are via the office phone, I don't use my cell phone during office hours, so what I do is I text my good friend "Save me" and she calls my cell phone right away. I put the cell phone to up the telephone and tell whomever is on the line, I need to let you go, I have a very important call I need to attend. Then I just simply thank my friend for saving me, works every time.

That's an *excellent* idea. You can be your own "save me" buddy if you have two lines and a cell phone. I could be desperate to ditch some leech, grab my cell and use it to call the house line.... oohh, NICE idea!! Thanks, MAS!

[Jack from Ohio]

That's an *excellent* idea. You can be your own "save me" buddy if you have two lines and a cell phone. I could be desperate to ditch some leech, grab my cell and use it to call the house line.... oohh, NICE idea!! Thanks, MAS!

Giving your spouse a signal and have her/him ring the doorbell works too!!!

I just had an epiphany!! My doorbell is wireless. I get another button and mount it under my desk!! No need for spouse to ring the bell!!!

[jklcpa]

You don't need an actual friend at all. You could go to the cell phone's settings and adjust the volume of the ring and it will start playing, or play one of the sample ringtones. Here, I could also simply point at the doorbell button and at least 2 of my dogs would start barking.

[JohnH]

You could also make a recording of dogs snarling, growling, and yelping.

Then play it at full volume and say "Sorry, I've got to go right now. The dogs are fighting again!"

[jklcpa]

I only suggested those ringtones or dogs because others mentioned those as an option, but I don't ever use those. We know the people that routinely call for free advice, and I do one of two things to limit the time on the phone, both of which are truths. If the caller asks if I am busy or can spare time for a question, I'll start off by saying that I have only a couple minutes to spare and that puts the caller on notice from the start that I'll keep the conversation short. If the person doesn't ask that or the conversation is getting on in length, I simply say that I need to get back to the project I was working on to meet a deadline.

[Guest Taxed]

Seriously speaking. One problem with telling a caller that you have another call or you are very busy right now is that they will call you back again. Because they think you will talk to them when it is a better time for you.

Over the years i have found that if I confront this problem right away by giving the doctor call example, most get the point. They will either make an appointment or just go away to someone else in my area.

The tough ones are calls from friends and relatives? And you got to do what you have to do depending on how much you value that relationship.

[MsTabbyKats]

The guy I wrote about (told him the IRS has reps that get paid to help people with self-prepared returns) did get back to me. He told me it was hard to get thru due to high volume...and I deleted his e-mail without a response.

I think the trick is to perhaps, after you are sure they want free advice, guide them to IRS asap.

Once you give someone a tidbit...he will come back asking for more....until you say "no".

"Friends and family" is tricky if they want a freebie. But, sometimes you may think they want a freebie...and they are willing to pay. That happened to me once...after doing a friends return for free for years. One year I just said that I needed to charge her to cover my costs...and I charged her minimally. She didn't complain.

With another friend I'm just blunt and say that according to IRS regulations I am not allowed to give advice....only because this woman picks my brains about beating the system....and constantly gloats about what she gets away with (not tax specifically...but things such as "finding hair" in her food at restaurants etc).

[Guest Taxed]

>>> only because this woman picks my brains about beating the system.

I have a cousin who is a plumber but think he knows more about taxes than plumbing. Every time he starts by saying hey I want to run this idea by you, I say if you tell me I have to put it down on the return. That stops him every time with his crazy beating the system ideas.

He is a cash basis plumber and once wanted to deduct like $8K in uncollectable billings as a business expense? Tells me all the plumbers he knows do it?

[kcjenkins]

AGES AGO, before I even started doing tax work, I had a 'friend' who could talk the ears off a basset hound. I always kept a teapot on the top of my stove, so that when I could take no more I could honestly say "I have to go, I've got something on the stove." Then just hang up fast. To this day, I keep 'something on the stove'! That was long before caller ID, today it's easier to avoid such call, of course, but cell phones reduce that somewhat.

But in the office, I do think frankness is best. Simply tell them, "Sorry, but I've already given you the best advice I can, I can not do the return for you unless you are willing to pay me. The tax laws are very specific about tax advice." Then, if they ask "How much?" you say "$XX in advance". You may offer a reduced rate, but if you do, be sure you tell them that. Example: "My normal charge for that is $300, because of your circumstances I will do it for you, this one time, for $150, but since I am giving you a big discount I need to be paid up front."

[Catherine]

I love KC's advice. I was mainly thinking of using the phone (or kettle on the stove; mine is always there, too) for a colleague who calls to run stuff by me. Well, I do the same sometimes with her as we have different areas of specialty. She can get really long-winded, though, and just *has* to tell me the exact same story in the exact same words three times running. If it's a short story I let it run out but the longer ones... halfway through the 2nd iteration I excuse myself. She's a smart lady, a nice person, and is a good sounding board in a number of areas, but she also has poor social skills, not enough friends (as a result of the former), and has trouble knowing when to stop talking. She's the one I was thinking of.

[Guest Taxed]

When I did walk in clients I would do estimates for $20 and tell them if they came back to me to get the complete return prepared and filed that $20 would be a credit to the final bill.

I suppose we could do something similar with these walking and talking advice customers??

[MsTabbyKats]

When I did walk in clients I would do estimates for $20 and tell them if they came back to me to get the complete return prepared and filed that $20 would be a credit to the final bill.

I suppose we could do something similar with these walking and talking advice customers??

Yes...when people "doubt my expertise" and want their papers back I charge a "consultation fee" and tell them I'll deduct it from the bill if they come back to me.

When the next preparer gets the same results (or worse) and charges double....they come back.

Another trick I use is if someone complains (only on sure things...W-2s....standard deduction etc) I tell them "Go anywhere else, and if someone gets you back even $1 more I'll give you your money back." So far...no refunds have been issued.

[michaelmars]

I guess I have a different attitude.....yes time is money but once in a while you have to do what feels right. in the original post the taxpayers were in dire straights and need the money, so Just do the return for them. No different than any other volunteer work. I am a vollie medic and donate my time so what's wrong with donating a bit of professional time too. Lawyers call it pro bono and some larger firms demand it of their staff. Maybe I could bill out every minute or not be at my desk on a sunday in September but I think I sleep better knowing that I have helped someone.

As for getting rid of pain in the *ss callers why go to such elaborate extremes, just say, hey you caught me at a bad time and I will have to get back to you. No one will ever fault you for being a busy professional. Or tell them this is getting to detailed so you need to make an appointment.. most won't want to do that.

[MsTabbyKats]

I guess I have a different attitude.....yes time is money but once in a while you have to do what feels right. in the original post the taxpayers were in dire straights and need the money, so Just do the return for them. No different than any other volunteer work. I am a vollie medic and donate my time so what's wrong with donating a bit of professional time too. Lawyers call it pro bono and some larger firms demand it of their staff. Maybe I could bill out every minute or not be at my desk on a sunday in September but I think I sleep better knowing that I have helped someone.

As for getting rid of pain in the *ss callers why go to such elaborate extremes, just say, hey you caught me at a bad time and I will have to get back to you. No one will ever fault you for being a busy professional. Or tell them this is getting to detailed so you need to make an appointment.. most won't want to do that.

Michael-

I understand about "just doing the return"....and I basically did the 1040-NR to copy (even had numbers filled in) and told him what he had to do to customize it. (Date of arrival...Visa type). I told him exactly what to put on the 8843. I told him how to do the 1040-X.

I told him I don't do FICA rebates...because I haven't done one for years....and I cannot help with the state because I never amended a RI return.

It would have been much easier for me to "just do the return" but to do it completely (with the FICA rebate and state) it would have been time consuming with calls to the IRS & RI.

These people are PhDs in science....not stupid. I'm sure he can figure out the correct way to do the 1040-X by reading the instructions or calling the IRS. But, it's just easier to call me.

The thing is I would not "just do it" because the woman who referred him, and the man that referred that woman are also earning minimal incomes...and they paid me. I didn't want them to feel slighted....and I didn't want my name spread as someone who did the returns for free. (Most of the non-resident aliens earn next to nothing...which is why I do them so cheaply....and which is why I have limited new NRA clients.)

ETA-Most other preparers, when I tell them how little I charge, especially for NRA, consider that whole sector of my business "volunteer work".

[Guest Taxed]

I do plenty of pro bono returns for my relatives and my children's friends. Last couple of years I did not charge a couple of families where the husband/wife were on active duty.

I agree with Tabbykats that once the word spreads that you will do returns for free, it is a bit difficult to control. I did the tax return of my son's friend free. Then he brings his girlfriend and says now you won't charge her right, because you are so nice???

[michaelmars]

I do plenty of pro bono returns for my relatives and my children's friends. Last couple of years I did not charge a couple of families where the husband/wife were on active duty.

I agree with Tabbykats that once the word spreads that you will do returns for free, it is a bit difficult to control. I did the tax return of my son's friend free. Then he brings his girlfriend and says now you won't charge her right, because you are so nice???

that's when you have to step up and take charge of your practice.....you can't let yourself get walked on but in this case I was only referring to the posting that said she felt so bad because they had little money. People make choices that hurt them the least or make them feel better. I feel good when I do a return for someone that needs help and can't afford it or doesn't know they need help. Doesn't mean that I want a whole line up of freebies but as you said.... I bet you felt great telling the h/w with a spouse on active duty that the return was free [what did it cost you, a 1/2 hour]. Of course you don't want 100 of them but a few here and there can't really hurt and can make you feel really great.

I gave away a bunch of freebies to people who lost their home in Sandy..... never even crossed my mind to charge for the pain in the *ss carrybacks, when they are living in trailers or motels etc. After 9/11 I must have done 25 free returns when parents came in with their murdered kids records or visa-versa.

You can't fully respond to a post in 3-4 lines and MsTabby seems to take this personally [there is always more to the story than what is posted here] but if you feel so bad because someone needs the money and can't meet your fees then you do the return. Unless you will then feel so bad for not earning a fee, then you don't do the return. I just can't see doing 90% then bitching about the rest or regretting getting involved. And many times those freebies bring you in great clients. Every uniformed service person I don't charge due to a "line of duty injury" usually gets me 3-5 of his buddies as clients. My rep isn't that I do work for free, my rep is that I get it and feel for people in distress. That unwed mother or father that loses his job....eventually they get work, need a more complex return, and recommend you to everyone they speak with.

[RitaB]

Girl at church last night, does her own return, picking my brain about how to complete her W-4. I answered every question with "Yeah, that will be fine." So, as far as she knows, M/0 thru M/7 are all fine. Unless she wants to pick "Married But Withhold At Higher Single Rate" and any number of exemptions. Which is also fine. But she knows to stay away from Head of Household, cause her husband is Head of Household.

[Jack from Ohio]

Girl at church last night, does her own return, picking my brain about how to complete her W-4. I answered every question with "Yeah, that will be fine." So, as far as she knows, M/0 thru M/7 are all fine. Unless she wants to pick "Married But Withhold At Higher Single Rate" and any number of exemptions. Which is also fine. But she knows to stay away from Head of Household, cause her husband is Head of Household.

You should hire her as an assistant!

[RitaB]

You should hire her as an assistant!

I thought about that, but then she would have two jobs, and the W-4 would burst into flames, and I'd have to go through it all again.