Billing like an attorney

[ILLMAS]

Who here charges when a client calls for any question?  I am in the process eliminating payroll services, the stress is not worth what I am currently charging and I would like notify clients that call too much I will be charging starting in 2015.  I would hate to charge for my time, but I feel it will be the only way they won't call.

[Jack from Ohio]

Who here charges when a client calls for any question?  I am in the process eliminating payroll services, the stress is not worth what I am currently charging and I would like notify clients that call too much I will be charging starting in 2015.  I would hate to charge for my time, but I feel it will be the only way they won't call.

How about just doubling the fees?  You will quickly find out who values your professional skills and who is just looking for the cheapest.

[mcb39]

I encourage my regular clients to call me with questions and information about any major changes in their lives throughout the year.   I don't want them coming in with surprises at the end of the year and issues that they should have asked for advice on before going forward.  This works well for me. 

 

I am, however, going to have to do something about prospective NEW clients who are calling with a million questions and may just be scoping out the field.  I have to start telling them that they must make an appointment to come in and see me during regular office hours.  (One of the problems of OIH is that they think you are available all hours including Sundays).

[Lion EA]

I try to charge enough of a tax prep fee to each client to cover the questions throughout the year.  I too want them to call BEFORE they do something.  As I get to know each, I can estimate how much to bump up their tax prep fee to make it worth my while.  If I underestimate, I bump up the next year.  It almost always works out.  (I have a new business client that I quoted a fee.  They also have a personal preparer and a bookkeeper, team put together by personal preparer.  I'm getting a LOT of questions.  They are nice to work with, though, and want to get their finances organized.  I may increase my quote by 10% when filing their S-corp for the first time.  The combo will still be less than they were paying the big NYC firm.)  I have sometimes charged a consultation fee to a prospective new client with a lot of questions, calculations, research, etc., with the offer of some/all applied to their first tax prep.

[RitaB]

I don't charge for questions, per se.  When it gets to be an annoyance, I just raise the total fee.  I have had two attorneys in my life.  One would itemize those bills like crazy.  The other just charged what he was gonna charge whenever he sent a bill.  I liked the second one better, and paid him more.  Go figure.

[Margaret CPA in OH]

With new or prospective clients, I always provide the first hour free. I put it on the invoice then back it out as a discount to show the value. I don't recall ever charging for occasional calls throughout the year, (usually get emails anyway) as I think my regular fees include that.

I do now am trustee on 6 trusts, 4 for 4 more years, set up by a now deceased client. For these, I am keeping track of the calls and emails in 15 minute increments as 2 of the beneficiaries are creating many complications. But then, I will get paid from the income, they have no choice and they will no longer be clients in 4 more years. I am being scrupulously fair in documentation so they can see the invoices, though. And I do lump together multiple emails and calls over time to make the 15 minutes.

[Sailor]

My pet peeve is calling the IRS or state for a client about something that isn't my fault and I cannot do anything about, such as refunds that get tied up for whatever reason. I tell the client that my fee was for preparation only and I offer the phone number. If the client isn't capable of making a call, the fee goes up ther next year.

[JohnH]

I like to charge by the question.

The conversation usually goes something like this:

 

Client: I'd like to know how you charge.

 

Me:      I answer the first question for free.  

           After that, there's a charge for each question.

 

Client: How much do you charge for each question?

 

Me:     $100 each.  

            What's your next question?

[SaraEA]

I too want clients to call before a tax situation arises so I don't have to pick them up off the floor in April when they do their return.  How many clients have you had who took $100k out their 401k, had 10% withheld, and told you they had the taxes taken out?  I like it when clients call to tell me they sold their home (main or vacation?), inherited something (makes a difference if it's a 401k, IRA, savings bonds), got divorced and are now paying/getting alimony.  I can tell them how much to set aside for taxes, set them up with estimates if necessary, or tell them no problem.  Makes me feel good that they thought to ask me.

 

Had a client query today about some weird profit interest warrants his company granted him.  Glad he called now instead of during the busy season so I could do the research.  We've also had some legitimate questions about employee health care reimbursements that I am still clueless about.

 

Then there are the high-maintenance clients.  Today I did my FOURTH tax projection for one.  God forbid he pay $100 too much for his 4th quarter estimate.  Another has asked about 10 times about how much he could contribute to a solo 401k vs. a SEP, income changing as the year progressed.  Another had a million questions over the past few months about renting out very expensive inherited property.  Like Rita, we just keep raising the fees.  Maybe they're at the point where they feel free to pick up the phone and call us anytime because we charge them so much.

 

I was at a seminar last week where the speaker was an attorney who helped people with foreign tax issues and big IRS debts (not a pennies on the dollar guy). When people called he would tell them if their case was easy enough to handle on their own or they should come in to see him.  To those who asked if the initial consultation was free, he told them they just had it.

[Medlin Software, Dennis]

Interesting topic.  It is a tough line to walk.  For me, it is when someone figures since I answer the phone, they can use me for all sorts of computer issues, not just help using our software.

 

When something not involving our software, if they are not a customer, I decline.  If they are a customer, I direct them to email me.  I restrict the reply to generic links as much as possible.

 

<rant>

Today, there was a customer yelling at me (ALL CAPS) through email that our software was causing a problem with their printer.  This, despite the fact that the same person was able to print just fine with their second printer, the only problem was the new printer.  The issue was the printer's software was set to print four pages per sheet.  They thought it was me causing their print to be compressed on just this one printer.  They got no help from the printer manufacturer, as the manufacturer blamed our software.  The last message was me showing, through marked up images from the manufacturer's web site, that the printer offered the four per sheet option, and where exactly it was.

 

So, to try to keep a customer, I had to provide support for a large worldwide company (again), since said company proved (again) their priority is to get callers off the phone, and blamed someone else (again) instead of showing their customer how to use their own printer software.

</rant>

[kcjenkins]

Yes, it can be a problem sometimes.  Tax professionals seem to attract legal questions, estate planning questions, marriage counselling questions, and business development questions, in addition to tax questions.  Heck, we get software questions too.   Besides referring them to proper specialists, where appropriate, I always just hiked the fee and ranted to Don.     

[RitaB]

Just had this question in a Facebook message.  She's not my client. 

 

"I have a question. I am filing out a new W-4 form. what is the best way for me to get money back at the end of the year but not taxed so much during the year."

 

So many smart @$$ responses, so little time.

[ILLMAS]

Just had this question in a Facebook message.  She's not my client. 

 

"I have a question. I am filing out a new W-4 form. what is the best way for me to get money back at the end of the year but not taxed so much during the year."

 

So many smart @$$ responses, so little time.

Do you have a business page?  I have thought about it, but questions like that, make me think twice.

[Sailor]

Do you have a business page?  I have thought about it, but questions like that, make me think twice.

In your original post you said that you would be notifying clients that call "too much" that you will start charging.

How do you notify clients?  I mean, what do you say?

I would love to do this, but I don't want to "turn off" the clients, or have them not call me if it's relatively important assuming I want to keep that client.

 

So, my question is:  How does one tactfully tell a client I am not available 24/7 for questions that are not relevant?

[ILLMAS]

I only have a handful of clients that call often and take a good amount of my time, I am going to put on my big boy pants and tell them you pay for my time or find someone else, I am also going to put in writing to disclose how I will be charging in 15 min increments.  People will be willing to pay $12.50 for 15 min, instead of $50 per hour, learned this from a CPA friend.

 

FYI:  Call too much clients are accounting/payroll clients not tax clients.

[mcb39]

In your original post you said that you would be notifying clients that call "too much" that you will start charging.

How do you notify clients?  I mean, what do you say?

I would love to do this, but I don't want to "turn off" the clients, or have them not call me if it's relatively important assuming I want to keep that client.

 

So, my question is:  How does one tactfully tell a client I am not available 24/7 for questions that are not relevant?

You might start by asking them to set up an appointment to come in and see you during office hours and then discuss all of their questions. Actually, a few years ago I fired an "ask too many questions; any time day or night or weekends" client and have never looked back. In the time that she wasted for me; I was probably able to add an additional five or six clients to my client base.

[RitaB]

Do you have a business page?  I have thought about it, but questions like that, make me think twice.

 

No, I do not.  She's a church "friend".  She actually called then rather than wait on me to respond to the message.  I tried to keep it short, but it's impossible with a question like that.  I was pleasant, maybe she'll decide to hire me.  Maybe not.  We all get those; I just try to do the best I can with it.  One call, I can live with that.

[Medlin Software, Dennis]

What do I say/do?  First off, if a call, I let the person know there item is not something I can comment (note I do not say answer) without more thought.  I ask they send the question by email, and I will answer by email so I can write out my thoughts.

 

A certain number never write.

Those that do, I can respond with links and a short comment.

Those that continue to go what I consider too far, I tell then their question is beyond the type of help we offer with our software license.

Those that persist, I offer a refund.

 

A refund usually is refused, they understand, and want to continue using the software.

Have one or two customers who are customers only because they agreed to not ask any questions (reinstated after a refund, I keep good notes.)

[MsTabbyKats]

I offered a refund this morning.  The guy didn't get his refund from NJ yet.  Not to go into the details (J-1 issue)....I told him I have a good reputation and I don't want to spoil it.  Rather than him be mad at me (of course this is somehow my fault...lol)...I'd refund my fee.  And, when he finally gets the NJ refund, he could repay me.

 

He refused my refund...and apologized for taking his frustrations with the NJ tax dept out on me.

 

Truly...the time I've spent on the phone with NJ since June...about 45 minutes to an hour a month.  And it's just checking the status....all the paperwork is there....and sitting on a big pile of paper returns.

 

Not worth it...if he comes back to me, I will tell him that the fee is for preparation only and one follow-up call in mid-July.

 

My attorney is $500/hr.  At those rates my client owes me a few thousand by now!