Protecting our data from tax preparers being twitchy or careless

[FreedomTaxed]

Well, I feel like a "n00b" about this, but it's becoming an issue in our office.

 

I've been thinking of emailing CCH to ask if there's a utility that you can use that allows a user on our network to look at all aspects of a client's tax returns from any particular year, but which denies the user the ability to change those tax returns. In other words, I need ATX's user interface, but the data it looks at is set to "read-only".

 

We're getting problems with tax preparers across the board who simply have twitchy fingers and bad practices. They open a tax return in a previous year's ATX (say, Dwight and Sandra Jones from 2009) and then after examining the return they make an accidental change or click "Save" when closing it. The accidental change could be the depreciation calculation, or it could be not noticing they hit the keypad on their keyboard and it put a string of number digits in the 1040 first name field. At the very least, the client return for that tax year is marked with a new date of last change, which also messes up our company administrative forensics (aka "what the heck happened there?").

 

Yelling at people is a bad way to enforce this level of security. And our use of the "Completed" flag only goes so far, in previous years. So, restricting the user permissions that way doesn't work as it should.

 

This year, in our physical training program as conducted in our office at our desks, I'm seeing trainees who are dipping into previous years and I just don't know what they're doing. The trainer's been alerted to these things and we dealt with the issue in class, but as I said, yelling at people is a bad security system. I need something better, like a utility that pulls out a single client's tax return from a single year and just displays it (with our without access to active worksheets).

[jklcpa]

Save the returns in pdf format, and then you could allow those preparers access to the pdf to view the completed return that would protect the actual input from inadvertent changes.

[Jack from Ohio]

Just check the "complete" box on the returns in Return Manager.  This stops any changes without a warning screen. 

 

Maybe you need to rethink who you have working for you???

 

At the firm, we have 3K clients and as many as 8 people working with returns on a busy day during season.  We would have 5-10 instances of this every season.  Most of the employees here are diligent.  3 seasons ago, we started marking the return complete when the e-file was accepted.  This reduced the instances of this to ZERO.

 

Another trick is to go into preferences in the prior year and change the color of the input box to something different than the current year.  That is a visual signal that only the truly careless employees would miss.

[Lion EA]

I worry about just my self making an accidental change in my sole proprietorship with no employees at all.  I save all client returns as a .pdf file and can use that for most of the questions I have in following years without risk of changing anything.  When I do have to open an already filed return in the tax prep program (maybe to see where I entered something), I am always worried about just what you say.  If I know I'm going to spend much time in the return, I duplicate it and work within the duplicate (just like I do when I want to run some what-if scenarios).  If you're having a big problem, can you lock all returns and then duplicate a return one at a time as needed for your employees to examine a prior year's return preparation?  (Don't use ATX any longer, so don't know the logistics or possibility of that.)

[Medlin Software, Dennis]

From a programmer's point of view, a Catch-22.  Asked often.  Allow me to edit anything, but do not make me responsible for bad edits... or do not allow me to edit anything, and figure out what I really meant to do/keep.  Over 30 years, I have learned the user will defeat (on purpose or accidentally) any code to warn or attempt to prevent making a bad decision.  (Proves I am human and can be out smarted.)  Thus, the only practcal method is to clearly make the user responsible for what happens or does not happen at their keyboard, with the reverse of allowing to fix whatever happened with correct keyboarding.

 

Had this issue a few moments ago.  Someone said we printed an incorrect DE9, as the ETT pct was 0.  Printed again later with a correct ETT.  Person wanted us to pay the penalty amount.  The issue was user based.  We do not and cannot set ETT as not all employers have to pay ETT.  The user did not have ETT setup at all.  On the first report, they would have had to confirm they were not subject to ETT via a Y/N message.  (We do ask if we di not find ETT setup properly.)  On the second, the person probably answered no, they were not exempt, so despite not setting up ETT, we insert the proper limit and rate for the user.  Probably lost a customer over this as there was no way the person was willing to accept that they messed up, despite seeing the results right in front of them, including exactly how it happens.

 

So the message is if not paper, then create PDF's, multiple sets, and keep them safely in your control in at least two separate locations.  Backup, backup, backup.  And after that, test the backups on a clean machine from a completely separate location.  Can you reinstall your applications?  Can you restore or access your data?  How long does it take?

[JohnH]

Makes me think of a sign I saw at every workstation many years ago when visiting a local payroll processing service (probably back in the DOS days). 

 

"ALWAYS obtain a supervisor's permission before pressing the 'Delete' key.

Otherwise, the payroll record you eliminate will be your own."

[Medlin Software, Dennis]

I miss DOS on occasion.  Looking for the "any" key.  Explaining the CD carrier was not a cup holder.  The main key was the Return key instead of Tab.

 

Just yesterday, heard from someone who was still using one of our DOS programs.

[Randall]

I'm just one person so I don't have to worry about others. But for myself, I make pdf copies of all the returns and use the pdfs if I just want to review. I seldom have to go into a prior year program. But I thought for multiple users, there was the server versions. I guess I assumed they had the ability to assign different levels of access for staff.

[FreedomTaxed]

Well, this is interesting. I know about the "Completed" flag. We're making use of those now, as we go back and cleanup the years of database sloppiness. However, that Completed flag is only a couple of years old.

 

Printing to PDF upon completion is a good idea. It's better to have some backup like that, than nothing but hope. I'll go over that with our senior preparer. The other advantage to that method is that our admin people won't even have to open the ATX program to produce another client copy; the disadvantage is the print step could be missed, creating yet another labor sink during "clean up" season (April 16th to 30th).

[BulldogTom]

I like this discussion.  Just a suggestion.  Send this in to ATX and ask for a way to give read only access to prior years unless you have the password.  It seems to make sense that you could "shut off" your software and just make it read only unless you have a password to "turn it on" again.

 

Sounds like a brilliant suggestion to me.

 

I would like to hear from ERIC if he thinks it is possible.  Eric is a smart guy.  He would know if this is pie in the sky or not.

 

Tom

Newark, CA

[jklcpa]

Well, this is interesting. I know about the "Completed" flag. We're making use of those now, as we go back and cleanup the years of database sloppiness. However, that Completed flag is only a couple of years old.

 

Printing to PDF upon completion is a good idea. It's better to have some backup like that, than nothing but hope. I'll go over that with our senior preparer. The other advantage to that method is that our admin people won't even have to open the ATX program to produce another client copy; the disadvantage is the print step could be missed, creating yet another labor sink during "clean up" season (April 16th to 30th).

 

The completed box has been around for longer than just a couple of years. I have the ATX programs back to 2009 on my current machine and that box is there in the return manager, and I am sure it was there in earlier years too because I used that a lot to sort and show only those returns that are incomplete.

[joanmcq]

I like the idea of saving a PDF copy. If done with all the worksheets, that's pretty much everything you'd need to track any entry you made in preparing the return. I'm trying to use less paper, but I still like to have the previous year in a paper file. But I hate having to open up the previous years programs & returns if I have to review an entry for some reason.

[Jack from Ohio]

I like this discussion.  Just a suggestion.  Send this in to ATX and ask for a way to give read only access to prior years unless you have the password.  It seems to make sense that you could "shut off" your software and just make it read only unless you have a password to "turn it on" again.

 

Sounds like a brilliant suggestion to me.

 

I would like to hear from ERIC if he thinks it is possible.  Eric is a smart guy.  He would know if this is pie in the sky or not.

 

Tom

Newark, CA

ATX will not even make their software 64bit.  There is a snowballs chance in hell of an enhancement like this.  Just use the completed box and reevaluate all your employees.

[jklcpa]

You've received all the ways to safeguard last year: the completed checkbox, changing the color of input fields of the prior year, and using pdfs to refer to instead of opening last year's computer file.

 

I kind of agree with Jack about the integrity or quality of personnel. In all the years I spent as a supervisor and training personnel, the ones that relied on looking at prior year input were those that did not know what they were doing, and a few were actually mimicking the prior year input instead of working through the current year documents and inputting whatever data it was. I hope that makes sense.

[Lion EA]

When I used ATX, I'd set a new color for each new year as I installed it.  Much easier to keep my place, especially when preparing multiple years for one client.

 

Don't know how you set up printing in ATX now.  In my software the print pop-up has boxes for my copy, government copy (mostly just 8879 for most returns), and client copy.  I set my copy  .pdf Only and the government and client copies to Printer (.pdf AND Printer is also an option).  Also checked is Masked for the client copy unless they need a copy with their SSNs printed.  I also have check boxes for statements one to a page and other options, such as printing the K-1s when preparing a pass-through entity (sometimes you don't need those yet if you're reviewing the return with the client).  All those are set for the software as a whole, and then I can change as I print an individual client if needed.  That way, I always have a .pdf copy without thinking about it.

[Randall]

A big advantage of having a pdf file copy is working in the current year program and looking back at last year's return and docs if necessary. No need to open last year's program. Most people have at least two monitors now and there's plenty of viewing room to look at various docs and pdf copies while having only the current year program open.

[Jack from Ohio]

A big advantage of having a pdf file copy is working in the current year program and looking back at last year's return and docs if necessary. No need to open last year's program. Most people have at least two monitors now and there's plenty of viewing room to look at various docs and pdf copies while having only the current year program open.

pdf files don't allow interaction with worksheets.  When working on a complex return, referring to previous year worksheets help refresh the memory.  If you only do 100-200 returns, remembering is not as tough.  When you have 3,000, remembering is impossible.

 

OP needs to reevaluate his/her employees.

[michaelmars]

if I recall from using ATX, the complete box still will allow the current date to print so if you use a "completed return" to resend letters, or invoice or even a copy of the return, all dates will be the current date.  I only send clients copies from a pdf done at the same time I print the return thus they get an exact copy of what was filed.

[jklcpa]

if I recall from using ATX, the complete box still will allow the current date to print so if you use a "completed return" to resend letters, or invoice or even a copy of the return, all dates will be the current date.  I only send clients copies from a pdf done at the same time I print the return thus they get an exact copy of what was filed.

 

I remember that being a problem too. If the preparer wants the program to NOT update the return with the current date in that signature line, the date can be manually entered in that field and that will stop the ATX program from changing that date any time that tax return file is opened.

[Jack from Ohio]

if I recall from using ATX, the complete box still will allow the current date to print so if you use a "completed return" to resend letters, or invoice or even a copy of the return, all dates will be the current date.  I only send clients copies from a pdf done at the same time I print the return thus they get an exact copy of what was filed.

 

I remember that being a problem too. If the preparer wants the program to NOT update the return with the current date in that signature line, the date can be manually entered in that field and that will stop the ATX program from changing that date any time that tax return file is opened.

Judy, you are correct.  I always enter the date manually at the bottom of the 1040.  It will stay unless manually changed again.  Clears much confusion when looking at old returns.

[Richcpaman]

Wow.  This is a weird conversation.

 

I make PDF of completed returns.

 

I also go into the prior years program, to review input, and will "save" the return again when I leave.

 

The OP mentions something about Forensic and administrative policies.  I would like to know more about why they have those policies...

 

Rich 

[michaelmars]

Wow.  This is a weird conversation.

 

I make PDF of completed returns.

 

I also go into the prior years program, to review input, and will "save" the return again when I leave.

 

The OP mentions something about Forensic and administrative policies.  I would like to know more about why they have those policies...

 

Rich 

IF YOU save the prior return then you just updated it and do not have an accurate version of what was filed,  I look at prior years and even might change numbers to see something but I NEVER save it on exit.  Even if you don't change anything the program will change the return for maybe updated form versions or corrected calculations etc.

[Jack from Ohio]

Wow.  This is a weird conversation.

 

I make PDF of completed returns.

 

I also go into the prior years program, to review input, and will "save" the return again when I leave.

 

The OP mentions something about Forensic and administrative policies.  I would like to know more about why they have those policies...

 

Rich 

Never "SAVE" the previous year return when you get out of it.  As michaelmars indicated, there WILL be changes.  Use the "completed" box and when you leave the old return "Do not save and exit."

 

At the firm, I can find those returns where saving after looking has occurred.  Stern words then go to whomever did that.  All are marked complete and it takes two extra steps to save when exiting. 

 

If you don't have employees that can adhere to these few simple rules, re-evaluation is in order.

 

[kcjenkins]

The OP mentions something about Forensic and administrative policies.  I would like to know more about why they have those policies...

 

Forensic and administrative policies are to protect both clients and the professional, Rich.   Forensic means we are protecting the validity of our records as to what WE provided to the client.   And administrative policies deal with what we expect from employees.  We have those policies because it's important that they know in advance what we expect from them. 

[FreedomTaxed]

A big advantage of having a pdf file copy is working in the current year program and looking back at last year's return and docs if necessary. No need to open last year's program. Most people have at least two monitors now and there's plenty of viewing room to look at various docs and pdf copies while having only the current year program open.

 

We just accomplished the two-monitor setup this year for most tax preparer desks. Aside from 2012 which was only partially done, making PDF scans of documents is also only setup for this year. Scheduling was only put on software last year. ATX login permissions were just done this year, then retro-fitted to previous years. Heck, keeping centralized track of client payments is only being done this year for the first time (since tax preparers set prices and collected payments personally in all prior years; total chaos). We're a paper shop with an e-file and ATX veneer that was running on inertia. So any change I make that is in a positive direction, is what works for me.

 

This year, we'll have to rely on the Completed flag. Pulling this company into the 21st Century isn't over.