schirallicpa Posted May 11, 2016 Report Share Posted May 11, 2016 I think this is a case of what I want vs. what I know........... Boys (now in their 20's) live in their mom and dad's old house. M&D have moved. 1 of the boys is fully disabled and requires home care. M&D fully support him financially. (and social security.) M&D own house, pay taxes and utilities on house. Older brother lives with him and works part time making about $11000 in 2015. I believe the disabled son is still a dependent of M&D. I would like brother to also be dependent of M&D, but I think he has to file on his own. But I wanted to post this in case anyone had any other thoughts on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcb39 Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 Older brother makes too much money to qualify as a dependent of someone other than himself. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaraEA Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 If the older brother is 19 or older and not a full-time student, he would have to meet the Qualifying Relative test because he's too old to be a qualifying child. In that case, he can't have income over $4,000 for 2015. If he is under age 24 and a full-time student, he can be a qualifying child regardless of income if he doesn't supply more than half of his own support. If the other son is totally and permanently disabled, he can be a qualifying child as long as he meets the support test. To think they dreamed up the qualifying child and relative distinction to make things simpler! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacun Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 (edited) So, we know that the parents can NOT claim older child but older child can claim younger brother and qualify for EIC, correct? Edited May 12, 2016 by Pacun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack from Ohio Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 39 minutes ago, Pacun said: So, we know that the parents can NOT claim older child but older child can claim younger brother and qualify for EIC, correct? No. The older child is NOT providing more than 50% of the support for the sibling. No EIC. The older brother is NOT providing the household for his sibling. Short answer... No & No 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schirallicpa Posted May 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 got it. thank you. And that qualifying relative thing just makes me more confused sometimes. Most of the time you just want to yell at these kids to go get a real job. But in this particular case the brother has elected to be care giver for younger brother. It's a sad situation. The boy got hurt in a vehicle accident on the way to work just months after graduating from college and landing a very good job. Just when all the moons and stars lined up and things were bright, he ended up in a wheelchair with limited mobility. It's a very close knit family. It brings tears to my eyes every year I prepare their returns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacun Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 Jack: Who said that support has to do with EIC? Sleeping in the same household and blood relation are the main ingredients. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack from Ohio Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 13 minutes ago, Pacun said: Jack: Who said that support has to do with EIC? Sleeping in the same household and blood relation are the main ingredients. Except for claiming as a dependent, which was the first half of the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RitaB Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 14 hours ago, Pacun said: So, we know that the parents can NOT claim older child but older child can claim younger brother and qualify for EIC, correct? Correct, parents can't claim older brother as dependent. Yes, older brother can claim younger brother for EIC purposes, but not as a dependent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacun Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 I didn't want to use my heavy artillery Jack, but since she volunteer, THANK YOU RITA. You are always my secret weapon. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openmind Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 The disabled child would be a qualifying relative for the parents since he does not live with them. The disabled child is a qualifying child for the brother since he does live with him and the disabled child does not pay more than half of his own support. A qualifying child cannot be a qualifying relative, so the brother claims the dependency exemption and not the parents. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneInAlabama Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 How can a brother be a parent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jklcpa Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 1 minute ago, GeneInAlabama said: How can a brother be a parent? A brother does meet the relationship test under the rules to be a qualifying child 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion EA Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 There are certain relationships that do NOT have to live with you to qualify. Is "child" one of those? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jklcpa Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 13 minutes ago, Lion EA said: There are certain relationships that do NOT have to live with you to qualify. Is "child" one of those? Huh? That would depend (see what I did there) on which type of dependent exemption you are referring to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion EA Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 QR doesn't have to live with taxpayer. So, that helps parents take disabled child as QR. However, it's been stated that older brother qualifies to take younger brother as QC. Is that only because parents supported both sons, so disabled child did not pay more than half his own support? Brother is a relationship that qualifies for EIC. So, older brother can take dependency and EIC. Not HoH, though, as he doesn't pay at least half the upkeep of the house, right? If the disabled brother was older, do some of the answers change? For EIC, qualifying child must be younger than taxpayer. For QC, younger than taxpayer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jklcpa Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 17 minutes ago, Lion EA said: QR doesn't have to live with taxpayer. So, that helps parents take disabled child as QR. No, disabled son meets all the requirements to be a qualifying child his older brother, so disabled son can NOT be a qualifying relative on parent's return. 20 minutes ago, Lion EA said: However, it's been stated that older brother qualifies to take younger brother as QC. Is that only because parents supported both sons, so disabled child did not pay more than half his own support? The rule for qualifying child only states that the dependent not provide more than 1/2 his own support. 32 minutes ago, Lion EA said: Brother is a relationship that qualifies for EIC. So, older brother can take dependency and EIC. Yes. 25 minutes ago, Lion EA said: Not HoH, though, as he doesn't pay at least half the upkeep of the house, right? OP didn't ask about older brother's filing status, so I'd assume no help is needed there, but you are correct. Older brother will file single (presumably single, OP didn't say), claim disabled younger brother as dependent and claim EIC. 27 minutes ago, Lion EA said: If the disabled brother was older, do some of the answers change? For EIC, qualifying child must be younger than taxpayer. For QC, younger than taxpayer? For this, please don't bring hypotheticals into the discussion at this point. Let's concentrate on the facts of the case as they were presented. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion EA Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 I know parents/anyone can't claim QR if same child can be QC of another. I was just stepping through the relationships/qualifications that others had brought up, some of which were still being disagreed on. I started with the OP which was exploring what's possible for the parents. Almost all is hypothetical without further facts from the OP. How old is the older brother? Is he a student? Is he married? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack from Ohio Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 I stand by my position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jklcpa Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 1 hour ago, Lion EA said: Almost all is hypothetical without further facts from the OP. How old is the older brother? Is he a student? Is he married? No, it's not. OP stated that both boys are in their 20s, disabled boy is the younger of the two. At that age, being a student or not wouldn't matter. From OP saying "I would like brother to also be dependent of M&D, but I think he has to file on his own" leads me to believe that he is single. I'll take that at face value. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jklcpa Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 1 hour ago, Jack from Ohio said: I stand by my position. 20 hours ago, Jack from Ohio said: No. The older child is NOT providing more than 50% of the support for the sibling. No EIC. The older brother is NOT providing the household for his sibling. Short answer... No & No The first part of your answer related to the older brother claiming the dependent exemption of the younger disabled boy. There is no requirement in the qualifying child tests that the person claiming the exemption that support must be provided at all. The requirement in the QC tests is that the dependent not provide more than 50% of his own support. The second part of your answer is that you think the older brother can't claim the EIC because he isn't providing the household for his brother. Providing the household and paying more than 1/2 of its costs is one of the rules for HOH status, not a requirement for the EIC. They only have to live together. What might knock the brother out of claiming the EIC is if he isn't yet age 25 himself, but we don't know that, only that they are both in their 20s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacun Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 If the original poster was wishing that parents could claim older child, that makes me believe that he is not married. I also can read between the lines and based on the questions posted, EIC was not even thought of. If the parent will benefit about 1K by claiming the older child and the poster wished the parents could do that, it is because he didn't see the 3K+ EIC benefit on the other return. Jack, I think you need to read the rules about EIC again. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RitaB Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 2 hours ago, jklcpa said: What might knock the brother out of claiming the EIC is if he isn't yet age 25 himself, but we don't know that, only that they are both in their 20s. The 25 - 65 requirement only applies to workers without a qualifying child. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jklcpa Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 1 minute ago, RitaB said: The 25 - 65 requirement only applies to workers without a qualifying child. Thanks, I stand corrected. I hardly ever see returns with EIC. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RitaB Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 9 hours ago, RitaB said: Correct, parents can't claim older brother as dependent. Yes, older brother can claim younger brother for EIC purposes, but not as a dependent. Younger brother can be dependent of older brother. Gotcha. I think. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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