Leaderboard

I teach Income Tax and Payroll Accounting at our local junior college. I do not allow the use of software for either course as I believe that the students must be able to understand the flow of data in the systems to properly do the work after they graduate. I'm still getting static from some faculty members about being "old fashioned" in my approach. I reply simply that I'll be d**ned before I let a machine do my thinking for me. I use the software as a tool, not as a final authority.

That's an interesting observation - never thought about it before. If a tax preparer has never known anything but e-flinging, it is possible for them not to have a comprehensive understanding of how the return actually comes together. I can see how they would be at a serious disadvantage in reviewing a return. More or less like someone trying to understand accounting when they haven't grasped the basics of double-entry.

My Lord ! Well I finally received my quote and have decided to renew with ATX. When I said form entry I meant entry on the W-2 ,1099-Int or whatever. I review the 1040 line by line as I progress. I may opt to change vendors down the road I simply was not familiar with their system and will need time to make myself comfortable with it . Like many of you I started in the pen and ink era with the tax computed manually or from the IRS tables.

I just got a new client who brought in his 2012 self-prepared return. You know, to show me he did it all by himself. He had a penalty on there for excess ROTH contributions. He's never even contributed to a ROTH. Ever. In the history of the world. I asked him how he thought he did on his return. "Not too good now that you mention it," he said. We had a good laugh, and I can't wait to see where that number was supposed to go when he brings in the forms.

I must be one of the "oldies" too, because I prefer the form based software. While they do use worksheets (ATX) that transfer a great portion of the info the forms, there is a reason we have multiple updates during the tax season...because the worksheets are not calculating correctly, or transferring data correctly, etc. If you do not know where the data is to end up, you will never catch those mistakes. As an oldie ( and I wear that badge proudly), if you cannot do a return with pencil and paper all the software will realy do is make your mistakes look neat. I get a couple of TT returns every year that I need to correct because the interview/worksheet format was not correctly implemented or handled. I realize that tax professional would probably not make those same mistakes. I also do, at times, lean on ATX to transfer the data correctly (especailly when pushed for time), however, I do review the entire return (all the forms) for correctness and to make sure it passes the smell test.

Heard at my house on Mother's Day 2014: "Welcome to the 21st century, Mom." My kids gave me an iPhone. I took it in to Verizon yesterday and the kid in there heckled my flip phone. I happen to love my flip phone. It has been a rough 20 hours. RIP, Flip Phone. Rest. In. Peace.

IMO, it is crucial to know why a number goes on which line and where it goes from there. How can you honestly call yourself a tax professional if you trust the program to do all the work. I am ethically in charge of every return I prepare and I watch and check entry as it happens. (Did it go where it was supposed to; and, if not, why not?) As I am training my second year assistant on very simple returns; I want her to know that when she enters a number on a worksheet or form, where it is going to end up and why. As for double entry bookkeeping, I am still setting some of my clients up with double entry spreadsheets so that they learn and understand how to keep track of their own income and expenses. We should take this job very seriously and I am sure that most of US do!

Us old-timers certainly feel that way, but lots of the younger ones just trust that the software knows. Many 'newbies' have never actually held a 'real' form in their hand, much less had to fill one out by hand. They never had to read the form to see where it flows.

Right. I think she's going to end up with ~ $13 in additional depreciation this year, and a tax savings of a couple of dollars. I've spend more time answering her emails that this is worth because from the way she wrote to me, it sounded like her rental property on the first go-round. I'm anticipating her next (typical) questions...why 39 years when the unit will last only 14? What happens then? Blah, blah, blah.

I believe the advanced EIC option ended a few years back.

My kids wouldn't dare take my flip phone away from me. I have a tablet that does everything a smart phone will do. I have a flip phone to make and receive telephone calls. For $10 per month, my tablet can access the telephone lines if WiFi is not available. My phone fits in my pocket if I am out and about. End of Story.

there is no more double entry, its all quickbooks. I make all my interns do a return by hand just to see how it goes. I use a sample with medical and misc expenses so they see the limitations, have a mortgage on a 2 mil home and the earned tax credit. also some college tuition so they have to calc all the various benefits. - they hate me.

Upon completion of the tax return I discuss every entry on the return with my clients even to the point of showing where the actual numbers originate. For example, with a final K-1 for a partnership, I explain, and show, how the prior unallowed losses on the 8582 flow to the 4797 and the Sch D. Without my prior hand prepared knowledge I don't see how I would be able to completely understand a completed tax return and explain it to my clients. ATX form based program keeps me up to date.

But, you still have to know if the correct numbers flowed to the correct line(s) of the correct form(s). Go back even further to the pencil and carbon paper days. I firmly believe that you have to know your forms.

Thanks, Jack. I know very well how that conversation goes, having had it many times over the years. I was just being sarcastic. It's been a rough couple of days, weeks actually.

Explain that when the unit goes bad, she can claim the additional depreciation which will lower the basis in the home. Then explain that the new unit installed at that point, will start the process all over. Use lots of numbers, percentages, number of years the average homeowner stays, etc.... Ask her several times if she understands, and if she says yes, ask her to explain it to you so you can be sure that she does. This conversation will last 10 minutes max... A tried and proven method. Also, bill her for the time.

ATX offers the deferred payment in the fall, where you pay a processing fee, and balance of the payment is deferred to December with no discount. The last two years, i've waited to the last minute and paid about a third in January and the balance mid February.

Yep. So few were taking advantage of the advanced option that it was eliminated.

The land is most likely investment property, and its sale would be reported as a capital loss on Sch D. Installment method is not allowed for losses.

Those were the good old days. The beaters or the bowl!

Yes, John, it's true. I saw this first hand when I worked as a supervisor and reviewer at one of the larger firms in town. Once computers came on the scene, the newer staff did not have as good an understanding of the interplay of forms within the return or how to balance a set of books. It was especially obvious if a reviewer sent the product (tax or financial statement) back to the preparer for corrections.

I wonder how the IRS reacts if you tell them that? Not for me!! I review the forms to be sure the information is in the right place and makes sense.

Absolutely right. People who really need financial help gain little by just a once-a-year windfall that they spend the first month and then have to look elsewhere for help. It is a big incentive to work in the underground economy and/or to file fraudulent claims.

JohnH is correct with his statement about forms based entry. If you look at the 1040 form in ATX, other than the demographics at the top of the form, there are almost no fields of direct entry unless you are overriding the program's input and calculations. Almost all of the input is done on other input screens, most having multiple tabs that the preparer has to work in that are nothing like the forms themselves. If you want to renew with ATX, you should contact them soon if you want the discounted price. If it's like past years, doesn't that only extend through the end of this month?

Direct form entry is vastly over-rated. I think it's wasteful of time and resources. Besides, most of what we call direct form entry is really just a link to a data entry sheet anyhow. There are very few instances in which the data is ACTUALLY entered directly on the form. If you'll lose that dependence on form entry, then with the right software you'll gain incredible speed. Since time is money in our business, speed is extra money in your pocket. But if money isn't your main business concern, then...

I have a small clientele with complex returns. No two are alike. Getting new situations each year is fun and challenging. Researching the tax law is great, and I might hit one of these boards for clues. But, there comes a time when I understand how the return needs to flow but have never done that in my software. Usually in March or April when I don't have time to duplicate the return and try a couple of possibilities. Probably once or twice a year I end up calling support to find out how to do something new in my software, or in which order to do several things so it flows correctly and does not duplicate something already picked up from the K-1, for instance, or even to find out why something IS duplicating. A year or two ago I was sleep-deprived and preparing a partnership with a SEP, a partnership with a SIMPLE, an S-corp with s SEP and an S-corp with a SIMPLE, two also had HSAs, one had employees, both shareholders and non-shareholders, that contributed to SIMPLEs. (When I'm king of the world, I'm going to make partnership and s-corp returns more alike.) One of the returns was duplicating the SIMPLE or the HSA as the numbers were identical. Tech support came into my computer and fixed it in moments. I took notes and have them in those four folders. But, the time I saved late that night paid for itself. As a sole proprietor when I went out on my own, tech support was at or near the top of my list as I shopped for tax prep software. I called one support line re downloading Flash to run their demo. The techie fixed the issue (Norton) but asked what I was up to and offered to walk me through using their software. I chose trusts, as I was new to trusts but getting some, and he walked me through all the menus in a trust return, spending hours on the phone with me. When the salesman called, I was ready to buy and have never regretted my decision. I don't call but once or twice per year, but the time saved is huge. When tech support saves me enough time to prepare a couple more returns instead of struggling on one with a problem, it saves me enough money to afford my pricier software.

I don't think the comparison to Vista is totally fair--Windows 8 boots noticeably faster than Windows 7 from an SSD. Overall system stability is no different than Windows 7. Windows 8 performs better than Windows 7 on the same hardware, using less RAM and CPU. Judging by ATX's system requirements, the less your OS uses, the better. The start screen will probably bother people who (initially?) hated the Ribbon UI in MS Office 2007+ but I don't have any issues with it. If you still hate the Ribbon, I suggest you never upgrade Windows ever again. It's all over the place in Windows 8. I have heard rumors that Microsoft will give us back an option to enable the old start menu in Windows 9, but I haven't seen anything directly from Microsoft about it, so until then it's just a rumor. Metro/Modern UI probably isn't going anywhere. With tablet/mobile device sales eating away at the PC market, it's not surprising that they'll continue to shoot for a unified OS experience across platforms. Windows 8.1 smoothed out a lot of rough edges that were left in 8, and I think Windows 9 will likely continue to refine the interface. If you're waiting for Microsoft to reverse course entirely, I think you're going to be disappointed.