Banned from the ATX Community

[joelgilb]

Well I think I might have made the ATX Oscars! ATX has removed my access to to its community forum. Not sure which Oscar I win though.

Now since I am still a paid up customer of ATX, I wonder if they have the right to do that, when there is no other working means of support.

As a tax and business lawyer (contract etc), my own legal opinion is that Community Boards are a privilege. I would say that the software companies aren't legally required to offer them, unless they add it in their licensing agreement.

As we all know here, when CCH first took over ATX they closed the forum completely, CCH only reopened it due to the backlash and probably this community.

I think we would all agree that ATX is obligated to provide its customers support under its current licensing agreement. Due to the overwhelming problems, other forms of support are virtually non-existent. Phone holds are over 7 hours and then you usually get cutoff before speaking to anyone. Emails to support get an auto-response that they will contact you in 3-4 days, and go unanswered from there.

So, since the community is ATX's only remaining line of support, I think this is a compelling argument that they would be contractually obligated to continue to provide a user that level of access.

Maybe it is finally time to sue them...?

[Gail in Virginia]

What in the world did you say over there? I have seen some really derogatory things posted on their board the few times I have looked this year - in fact, I was surprised it didn't have "technical" difficulties and get shut down.

[RitaB]

Yeah, and that would be a shame, cause most of us do not have time to be calling tech support. We have to have the boards to make it. Imagine how long the wait time would be if everybody were calling them.

I think I just explained why they haven't shut it down. LOL.

Having said that, one person on there did a post "Things that Run Faster than ATX" that cracked me up. Laughed til I cried.

https://community.atxinc.com/forums/thread/131883.aspx

[michaelmars]

didn't think your comments were more over the top than any others. and i agree that since they direct you to and advertise the boards as a support tool then you have a case. they can't on their phones tell you to use the boards then ban you. BTW, William once banned me and i wound up with the next years program free. i was ranting about the idiot support people and after a BBB complaint i got a VP to call me back. he actually offered that if i was right and his printing programmer wrong i would get next year free. He kept his word and emailed me the next day that yes the program has a development issue and my software would be free the following year.

keep at it, you do get results.

[Mainetaxguy]

What ATX doesn't understand is that in the Internet Age, there are many avenues for people to express their opinion about companies and services. Banning someone from a company's message board isn't going to solve the problems that ATX is now encountering. Rather than be upset about customer's complaints, they should focus their time and attention on creating a good software program that doesn't have a lot of bugs and errors. I'm beginning to suspect - and I could be wrong about this - that many of the problems were based on sabotage by ATX's own programmers. Think about it - some have complained on this message board about long hours and little pay, and one person on this message board speculated that ATX was in a rush to get the new program out so that they could lay off some programmers once the task was done - that's like telling someone on death row to hurry up and build the gallows so executioner can hang him! I can't believe that the ATX programmers are stupid. I believe they were under a lot of pressure to put this program out, and felt that if the s**t hits the fan, it would hit top management rather than them. As it turns out, they were right. Lesson - treat your employees with respect, pay them well, and take your time putting out a good program. End of story.

[mcb39]

Not so sure! Several years ago I had to battle with them to receive a referral fee for a new user who is still with them. Another one, I never received. So, if I do refer anyone (doubtful at this point), I don't even bother jumping through the hoops.

[mcb39]

Not so sure! Several years ago I had to battle with them to receive a referral fee for a new user who is still with them. Another one, I never received. So, if I do refer anyone (doubtful at this point), I don't even bother jumping through the hoops.

Also, some of the posts over there are disgusting and offensive. I don't recall every reading anything from Joel that was anything but the straight truth.

[michaelmars]

http://www.atxsucks.com/

some one started this website the other day and posted it to the other board.

[joelgilb]

I essentially stopped bashing them, but like here I changed my signature to add the following line (not sure of the exact wording anymore): Switched to Drake and No longer and ATX User, only here to help.

And I have only been over there for the following reasons:

1. To truly help others use ATX, when they chose not to move on; and

2. To get what little help I needed to finish off the the last few returns I started in ATX and decided to complete there.

Today I went there because my ERO and Preparer information just disappeared from ATX, my DCN reset to 1 and I couldn't e-file a return. Tried to put it back in, but every time I did... POOF it would disappear again. Finally I resorted to self-help - rebooted ATX 2012, added my preparer and ERO information back, reset my DCN and everything worked.

They have left a very bad taste in my mouth and even Listerine doesn't help!

[joelgilb]

http://www.atxsucks.com/

some one started this website the other day and posted it to the other board.

Too funny, but also probably a mistake. Wolters Kluwer, CCH's owner has MEGABUCKS! They can easily suggest that this is Libel. Although truth is a defense to Libel, who has the money to fight Wolters Kluwer?

Not providing any legal advice here, but if anyone knows who that is I would suggest they tell them to rethink that site.

[joelgilb]

Not giving up. Does anyone have an e-mail address for Kimmie or other top management?

[jklcpa]

Someone posted Kimmie's email address on the official board earlier this month. I'll send it to you in an PM.

[Lynn EA USTCP in Louisiana]

Try [email protected]

where xxx = her last name

[mcb39]

Try [email protected]

where xxx = her last name

I don't believe that she is accepting any personal e-mail, and who can blame her.

[joelgilb]

E-mail sent to Kimmie. Judy, Thank you for providing her email

BTW, any reason no-one posted her full email in here, rather than the pm?

[Lynn EA USTCP in Louisiana]

I didn't post her full email as I didn't remember her last name, just the first name.

[jklcpa]

On some forums and websites, it's against the TOU to post someone's direct contact information without their permission, and even though most of what I provided to you is available on CCH's website, Kimmie's email is not. I just make it my own general policy to not post someone else's information without asking them first, so that's why I sent it to you in a PM.

[joelgilb]

Kimmie indicated my tag line was reported as offensive by some members and therefore had to be removed. I agreed to remove and she restored access.

Can't find any posts though suggesting my tag line was offensive. Wondering who might have had a problem with it?

[Gail in Virginia]

Probably offended Kimmie, maybe Jeff before he left, other CCH personnel. Who knows?

[RitaB]

Kimmie indicated my tag line was reported as offensive by some members and therefore had to be removed. I agreed to remove and she restored access.

Can't find any posts though suggesting my tag line was offensive. Wondering who might have had a problem with it?

Gee, I wonder. lol

[BulldogTom]

Kimmie indicated my tag line was reported as offensive by some members and therefore had to be removed. I agreed to remove and she restored access.

Can't find any posts though suggesting my tag line was offensive. Wondering who might have had a problem with it?

My screen name over there is "IDONTLIKECCH". I have used it for 2 years. When I was on auto delete earlier this year it was suggested that my screen name was the reason. Kimmie said that was not the case, it was because SHE was offended that I would call out the people who work for ATX when they were working so hard. What I actually said was that the front line support was nothing but kb readers, and they did not have a clue what was going on because the new software did not have kb answers yet, so they were worthless as support. I still stand behind that statement. They may work hard, but they did not have answers for the problems that came up, and that made the support that they were offering worthless.

Eventually, they took me off auto delete.

Tom

Hollister, CA

[joanmcq]

Joel, what was your tag line?

[joelgilb]

The exact wording was:

No Longer an ATX User as of 02/13/13, just here to help. Will I be back next year? Depends on ATX.

Updated news, Kimmie did reinstate my access. She indicated that I had to remove my tag line and that she would be monitoring my posts to insure I don't mention The DUCK (Drake) or any other tax software.

Of course she also mentioned that it was complaints by others who thought my posts were offensive that got me banned. THinking she is a pretty poor liar. Ahh but that's right she is management!

And Tom, I had been wondering who was "IDONTLIKECCH". At this point I don't like CCH either! lol

Love the Duck though!

[joelgilb]

My screen name over there is "IDONTLIKECCH". I have used it for 2 years. When I was on auto delete earlier this year it was suggested that my screen name was the reason. Kimmie said that was not the case, it was because SHE was offended that I would call out the people who work for ATX when they were working so hard. What I actually said was that the front line support was nothing but kb readers, and they did not have a clue what was going on because the new software did not have kb answers yet, so they were worthless as support. I still stand behind that statement. They may work hard, but they did not have answers for the problems that came up, and that made the support that they were offering worthless.

Eventually, they took me off auto delete.

Tom

Hollister, CA

Like I said, she is a poor LIAR!

[jklcpa]

Joel, did you request a refund? I put my request in yesterday. My salesperson no longer works for the company, and it seemed to me it was this new person's duty to get me to say that my business hadn't been harmed or lost revenue because of the ATX software. No, I didn't lose revenue because I'm a professional and my clients will never be made aware of the problems simply because I purchased other software that works. All I wanted was to request my refund. This new salesman proceeded to tell me that my clients should be willing to wait it out for the time it takes for ATX to resolve their programming issues, and that it is a sad reflection on the state of America that people aren't willing to stand by me while I wait for ATX to sort this out! Really, he said that almost exactly word for word to me. I told him in no uncertain terms that *I* am not willing to make my clients to wait due to the ATX program's shortcomings when other working software is available to me! (Not to mention that I don't get revenue in until I complete the work!) Then he told me I must return the books. I did because it *is* part of their refund policy, but Kimmie Manuel stated on the official forum that it wasn't necessary because they won't do anything with those books. Oy! What a waste of time and dollars.

I'm wondering just how long they'll allow me to have access to the forum. Maybe I'll be banned soon too. So I don't have to retype, here's a cut-and-paste of why I'd hesitate to purchase ATX again in future:

Kimmie, one of the problems I have with thinking of ever using ATX again is the policy that says if I've *ever* asked for a refund in my entire history with your company, that I'll never be entitled to another one.

I understand that some users might abuse the refund, but you do subtract a cost of use @ $20 per return filed, so it's not like the person requesting the refund is getting a totally free ride.

I've been a LOYAL ATX user since almost the very beginning when Glynn Willett and his brother started the company in Maine. ATX was a great program and wonderful value for the product that it was. Someday it may be a great product again, but it certainly was a disaster this year for a lot of users.

Each year I'd renew with the early discount, but after what happened with the ATX program and the ongoing troubles, I'll probably never renew early again, no matter what company's software I purchase. I would like to think that someday if the ATX program is once again a viable product, that I may think about using it again. However, with your current *no refund ever again* policy, that pretty much puts a damper on my considering any of your company's products in future.

Why would anyone would risk purchasing a product from anyone, software or otherwise, if that purchaser had no chance of a satisfaction guarantee if the product turned out to be as defective as this year's ATX program was when it was released and still continues to have a multitude of problems a full two months later?

Does CCHSFS have any plan to relax this policy in future since this year's product failed to live up to all the hype and promises of improvements?

Then, this was in that same thread:

Kimmie1201:

Our development team continues to focus on stability and performance enhancements to be delivered over the next weeks. We also recognize the frustration you are experiencing, which was definitely not in the plans.

Me:

This comment is rather disturbing and a large part of the reason for putting in my request for a refund. At almost March 1st, your team is still working on stability and performance issues, and will be continuing that focus over the coming weeks!? While my nontax-related work extends well beyond April, for many preparers here their season ends in 6 weeks. You team is running out of time to fix this for them.

Sorry for the rant. I feel better now. lol