Do Your Clients Check You on Turbo Tax?

[MsTabbyKats]

Just a bit of a rant.....

Many of "my guys" are PhDs in science or have degrees in electrical engineering. They could do their own returns easily...but really just want another name on the line.

They seem to double check me on Turbo Tax....and when the result is different, I have some explaining to do.

Example, PhD....2 W-2s (one for wife, one for him)....got $200 more when he did the return. Well yeah...he didn't add in his refund from CA last year.

I do have a policy....whenever a potential client mentions TT....I tell them that I expect a consultation fee if they ask me to do the return and then change their mind. I do get several "consultation fees" per year.

[Jack from Ohio]

Only once. I ask them to come get their information and take their chances. Only lost 1 client. The following year he was back, with a CP200 and a look of helplessness. His fees are now double what they originally were.

I do not have time to play games with people that insult my professional abilities by checking me with Turbo-Tax. If they have a question about the return, I am glad to answer, but don't use a cheap software to challenge me.

[MsTabbyKats]

Ok...once, I think it was 2 years ago...and I was using TRX...there was actually a mistake with the TRX software on the 2241. I think it was a year TRX used Redgear. The client (PhD of course) double checked me with 2 other softwares....and they both got a result different from mine. I read over the form very carefully..and there was an obvious mistake. I ended up spending several hours on the phone with the programmers to get it corrected.

So, it isn't always the client playing stupid games with cheap software. As I said, many of my clients are ultra-bright...and probably more double check than I care to know.

[Catherine]

I have a bunch of engineers as clients and there are lots of tax folks (around here, at least) who won't touch them with a 10' pole. Double-check, nit-pick, demand explanations.... at some level I understand (being an scientist/engineer by training myself) but it can get annoying. I remember a client some years back (moved; went to someone else, whew) who spent several hours of hisr own time investigating a $4 "discrepancy" between my depreciation figures (from ATX, on several TENS of thousands of dollars of equipment) and the ones he got from QuickBooks -- and wanted me to "justify" MY figures!!

Yeah, right. $4 out of thousands, and he wants a dissertation.

I think I told him that QB uses a less-sophisticated algorithm for those calculations because they want you to pay more for their more-sophisticated fixed asset manager software. He bought that explanation and decided he could let the $4 difference ride -- for that year, anyway.

[MsTabbyKats]

A group I avoid....lawyers.

My "smart people PhDs and electrical engineers" are concerned with the size of the refund.

One lawyer I dropped had a long list of charities ....and got upset because I used "&" instead of "and".

Probably the best clients are of average intelligence with blue collar jobs....that think we're really smart....and would never challenge.

[Richcpaman]

I have a bunch of engineers as clients and there are lots of tax folks (around here, at least) who won't touch them with a 10' pole. Double-check, nit-pick, demand explanations.... at some level I understand (being an scientist/engineer by training myself) but it can get annoying. I remember a client some years back (moved; went to someone else, whew) who spent several hours of hisr own time investigating a $4 "discrepancy" between my depreciation figures (from ATX, on several TENS of thousands of dollars of equipment) and the ones he got from QuickBooks -- and wanted me to "justify" MY figures!!

Yeah, right. $4 out of thousands, and he wants a dissertation.

I think I told him that QB uses a less-sophisticated algorithm for those calculations because they want you to pay more for their more-sophisticated fixed asset manager software. He bought that explanation and decided he could let the $4 difference ride -- for that year, anyway.

Then I would have sent him a bill for the consultation....

And it would not have been for $4.

Rich

[Terry D EA]

I had a client this year who wanted to see if I got the same refund amounts they did using Turbo Tax. Well, I did get the same Federal figures but not NC. The amount of refund was higher due to thier failure to recognize an allowable 2000 deduction for private retirement benefits they were eligible for. I got the paid to do the return and got a new client. So, I say, check me if you will but it seems they make mistakes due to their lack of knowledge. I tell them the software is only as good as the person is who is inputting the information. Sure it is question driven but if you don't answer the question correctly then oh well.

[Kea]

I've had a few, but never any "arguments." I have one couple that usually does a draft of their return as they get their documents to get their own estimate. I've usually found deductions they miss. One year they had a much lower tax than I did. It was the first year of the American Opportunity Credit & I missed it. i learned my lesson & didn't make that mistake again. Yes I still prepared that return for them.

Personally, I like it when my clients understand what's going on with their return. I've only had a couple of instances where the level of questions went from "understanding the return" to being "annoying." Like Catherine, perhaps that's just the engineer (by degrees) in me.

[joanmcq]

I had one that kept asking me to explain 'differences' between their calcs and mine, line by line. It was clear they didn't understand what the lines meant. Finally, after I had sent them their return, but hadn't made a couple of corrections that I needed to do a rerun for, they said they 'decided not to use my return' and what would they owe me. I had sent a bill, and I said, the amount on the bill. They asked why, since they wouldn't file the return I prepared. Hey I put the time in, I wanted to be paid for it. They sent the check & haven't heard from them since. BTW, their previous preparer was a well-known expert in same sex tax that shut her practice down to take a lobbying job, and I know the bill the previous year was at least 4 times what I charged.

[Lion EA]

I had an engineer come in with his return prepared each year. I always found something he missed or misunderstood. Eventually, he stopped preparing his return and trusted me to do it. He organizes his information in great spreadsheets. Over the last three days, he's been arguing with me about a 401(c )(4) he belongs to that donates to charities, and why can't he take the donations on his personal return. (Yes, I came here to get input as he argued; it's the one I posted about.) He now believes me and is writing up a paper for his club. He is also a really sweet guy and very intelligent and sent his daughter to me as a client.

I also have a banker and his wife who had her own business. Banker is very mellow and laid back. Wife creates amazing documentation by hand. She does question every difference. (One year I got a lower amount for LTC premiums, because of the limitation base on age; she now understands that that number will differ.) She has gone elsewhere to double-check me or to get advance information, such as the elder care attorney when their parents were ill (she brought me all the information she got from him). She asks lots of questions and apologizes, but I do like her kind of questions, wanting to take responsibility for her own finances and wanting to understand the tax implications of what they do before they do it. They contact me every fall with what their year looks like and what their final estimated tax payments should be. They are also a very nice couple and continue to use me even though they moved farther away.

I had a new client late last year who'd always had his returns done by his company's accountants while he was overseas. In 2012 he'd been in the US all year, so his company did not prepare. I showed him owing a ton. There's nothing to argue over: he has a huge W-2 and only 10% withholding. He wanted to discuss with his wife. I've never heard back from him!

[Mr. Pencil]

They seem to double check me on Turbo Tax....and when the result is different, I have some explaining to do.

That sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

[joanmcq]

Yes, that was reasonable, but not wanting to pay for the return was what wasn't.

[MsTabbyKats]

So...a new client..

An options issue...which is why I had some posts about options...and I also called Schwab to make sure I was doing it correctly.

According to me he owes $21K. According to his Turbo Tax calculation it's just $16K.

Of course it's $5K less if you leave off the $20K short term Box A gain from the Schwab 1099-B.

Says he'll pay me anyway........

[Lee B]

Yesterday I received an email from one of my clients, who owns a bar.

One of his bartenders said she wanted to be paid back for all the excess SS withheld

from all of her 2013 paychecks because Turbo Tax said her W -2 was incorrect.

She hadn't input her Tip Income in Box 7. LOL

[Cathy]

A long time client of mine decided he was using Turbo Tax to prepare his own return several years ago. He had just graduated from the seventh ranked accounting college in the country and surely he could do his own return.

Well, my client called me two weeks later after trying to get Turbo Tax to give him the refund I had estimated the year before that he should receive. "Didn't you tell me I was silly letting Uncle Sam hold $7,000 for me until I file my tax return?" "Yep", I replied.

"Can you fit me in?", he asked. I should have made him crawl on his belly like a reptile, but since he was my son, I had to squeeze him in to my schedule of "paying" clients, and, yes, he received his $7,000+ refund and Mama got yada, nada!

But don't worry, he's not using his degree in the tax world...he decided he hates accounting work and is working in the law enforcement field. I told him I know of a couple of local tax services that could really use his lack of knowledge if he needed part time work.....it would be a cold day (you know where) before I'd let him work in my office!

[Terry D EA]

One of my instructors in college had various degrees, CPA, CMA,; etc but wouldn't touch tax work of any kind. And yes, I acutally prepare a return for an accountant. Some would just rather work with the books.

[WITAXLADY]

OR the single mom with 2 children and $5,000 W-2 and only got back $2,000+ and after I explained it all and said could "give" 1 dependent to ex as didn't help her - no way.

she called back and said hold off filing as her dad said she should get more $$$'s.

She called about 3 hours later and said file...

[joanmcq]

One of my instructors in college had various degrees, CPA, CMA,; etc but wouldn't touch tax work of any kind. And yes, I acutally prepare a return for an accountant. Some would just rather work with the books.

I have a CPA as a client too. She's into government accounting. Its nice since she does have enough background to understand the return, and I can talk in accountant to her. And since her wife is a self-employed consultant, she understands the concept of billing for what you're worth.

[kcjenkins]

Probably a lot more of them do than you ever know, now that so many sources offer you 'free' versions. I know my credit union does. But given that fact, it CAN be a good marketing tool FOR YOU, if you deal with it correctly, if they bring it up. NEVER ACT DEFENSIVE. SMILE and explain that a software program can take information given and put it into a form, but it can not THINK, and it can not chose the BEST OPTION where there is more than one possible choice, etc. That is why smart people use professional advice rather than trying to learn enough about the tax code to do their own return, if they have any complications in their financial life. Showing them why 'their' result was wrong just builds their trust in you.

[MsTabbyKats]

So...a new client..

An options issue...which is why I had some posts about options...and I also called Schwab to make sure I was doing it correctly.

According to me he owes $21K. According to his Turbo Tax calculation it's just $16K.

Of course it's $5K less if you leave off the $20K short term Box A gain from the Schwab 1099-B.

Says he'll pay me anyway........

Just had to post an e-mail I got!

Hi,

I filed with TurboTax, but TurboTax apparently have some bugs (I learned my lesson, and I'm never using them again), and my NY efile was rejected (I was with TurboTax support for 1.5 hours and they couldn't figure out what's going on), so I asked if I could cancel the efile that was sent to federal&NJ and they said it's too late. So I told them that I'll submit the NY via an accountant.

I want to wait one more day to see that NJ is accepted (currently it's pending, and federal was accepted). Assuming NJ is accepted, could you submit just the NY one that you already prepared?

I know it's far from ideal, and I understand that I'm at risk of being audited because the numbers between NY won't match the federal, but I don't see another option.

Sorry for the mess (trust me that I suffered enough from that stupid decision to go with TurboTax, and I definitely learned my lesson).

[MsTabbyKats]

And to add.....

I told him to pay me first....and to expect a letter from the IRS asking for the tax plus interest.

The NY return included the $21K gain...

This is on of my electrical engineer super brain IT people.

[michaelmars]

head off the letter and do an amendment, proactive and a fee! it will also lessen penalties if any

[MsTabbyKats]

head off the letter and do an amendment, proactive and a fee! it will also lessen penalties if any

Oh...I thought of that....but the problem is that there were some trades that I didn't know about....which aren't on my version....and it's a part year NY/NJ....where the income had to be divided manually. I really don't know what he did.

My plan is:

1-He pays me my fee

2-he signs the NY consent form...and I e-file NY "as is"

3-Then I offer to amend...but explain it's on paper...and I have to redo the return 3 times to get all the figures to match...so my fee for that is more than my original fee.

But, I doubt he'll want to amend....since he thinks he's saving $5000 by doing it himself!

[Lion EA]

Make sure all your fees add up to $5,001.

[jklcpa]

I

Oh...I thought of that....but the problem is that there were some trades that I didn't know about....which aren't on my version....and it's a part year NY/NJ....where the income had to be divided manually. I really don't know what he did.

My plan is:
1-He pays me my fee
2-he signs the NY consent form...and I e-file NY "as is"
3-Then I offer to amend...but explain it's on paper...and I have to redo the return 3 times to get all the figures to match...so my fee for that is more than my original fee.

But, I doubt he'll want to amend....since he thinks he's saving $5000 by doing it himself!

The only way I would do this is to fix/finish the input to file a complete and correct NY return, not file something "as is" that is known to be incomplete, and to file amended Federal and NJ to correct those filings.