NECPA in NEBRASKA Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 I am too tired to even think very hard about this. My client says that guns and business meetings happen all of the time. I'm sure that they do, but I'm assuming that maybe ammo for the times when he goes would fall under entertainment, which leaves him at 50%. Then he wanted to depreciate his two guns. I just don't know. I've never had anyone ask me about guns except my law officers. I really want to just put this return to bed, but he keeps on coming up with new stuff to try. I will do some more research tomorrow, but if anyone knows if this would fly, I would welcome any comments. Please, no political stuff, because I don't give a darn if he owns guns. Thanks so much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfassett Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Think ordinary and necessary. As you say, your law enforcement folks get to take a deduction because it is an ordinary and necessary business expense. Can your present guy say the same thing? If not - then no. I have one that lists his guns and ammo in his organizer under charitable contributions because he teaches proper gun handling techniques to his Sunday School class. I just chuckle and move on. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Unless he's in a gun related business (selling, shooting range, etc), no way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RitaB Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 My client says that guns and business meetings happen all of the time. That's how a lot of us Tennessee girls get married up. Truth. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 If he takes clients and potential clients, or employees, to a full-service range (where they rent the equipment, give the safety lecture, sell the ammo, etc) for "team-building" exercises or to drum up business (like folks take potential clients to football games) then that cost is entertainment. His personal firearms, unless he uses them substantially for a business purpose, are not depreciable. Which question is actually stupid on the face of it, as good firearms tend NOT to decrease in value. My daughter competes with a pistol older than she is. (And kicks butt.) But if we went to sell it, we'd get what was originally paid for it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jklcpa Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 I think it depends on the type of business before you can say for sure. If the business is somehow related to firearms, shooting, hunting, etc, then the range fee might be considered directly related to the business. If not, then you need to decide if the entertainment meets the "associated" test. The range would have significant distractions and would preclude conducting any sort of business meeting or discussion while actively participating on the range, but if a meeting is documented either before or after, then it might be possible to claim a deduction. Also, if some of this does turn out to be deductible, if he paid for someone else to attend the meeting that wasn't necessary to conducting of business, that portion is not deductible. Check out Pub 463 for the "directly related" and "associated" rules. The owner's personal firearms and ammo would not be deductible as an entertainment expense. That would fall under the same rules that say a person's yacht can't be deducted for such purposes. I doubt this person has any deduction. It sounds like he's scratching around for deductions of expenses that aren't really deductible. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BulldogTom Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 I get invited every year by our Insurance Broker to go skeet shooting. I have not been able to make it yet due to scheduling, but I intend to do it sometime. It is a major promotional event for our broker. I don't do their taxes, but I would have no issue classifying this event as a promotion expense. To them, it is no different than inviting clients to a Christmas party. Tom Newark, CA 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 I'd even say that the ammo is deductible (assuming he meets other tests) as that is an expendable (at least, what is actually *used*). Much like the clay pigeons at a skeet shoot, or the food at a Christmas party. And it's expensive! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnH Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 (edited) That's how a lot of us Tennessee girls get married up. Truth. Speaking of Tennessee girls, guns, and getting married up reminds me of a story. A Tennessee girl comes home one day to find her husband sitting on the front porch weeping. She says: "That's so sweet. You remembered today is our 25th anniversary." Her husband replied: "That's exactly right. I still remember the day your daddy burst into our house, stuck that shotgun in my belly, and said 'Either you're marryin' my daughter or somebody's gonna die right now!'. I've been thnking that if I'd managed to wrestle the gun out of his hands and kill him, then allowing for time off good behavior, today I'd most likely be getting out of prison a free man." Edited March 2, 2015 by JohnH 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 My girls came home from a trip to Alabama (a family reunion on their dad's side) and told me they saw a store advertising beer, guns, and bridal gowns and said it sounded like the perfect all-in-one wedding planning store (for that area). 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack from Ohio Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 That's how a lot of us Tennessee girls get married up. Truth. Is there a personal story attached to this post? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RitaB Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Is there a personal story attached to this post? Why, what have you heard? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Jack -- read Rita's sig line and I think you will know everything you need to know about this situation. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAXMAN Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 What about those that that have the concealed weapons permits and driving for hire? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NECPA in NEBRASKA Posted March 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 Taxman, do you mean driving for Uber or something? I wouldn't think that a gun would be necessary or ordinary for them. If they were a bodyguard or something or driving security, that would be more normal to carry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jklcpa Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 ...or not entertainment, at least not in terms of how we describe it for tax purposes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion EA Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 I'm not a gun owner and would not want to be around when it happens, but I'm sure guns and ammo can be used in many entertaining ways that I might enjoy watching on YouTube. In fact, YouTube probably has many examples, most of which would not be deductible. Catherine, Judy, and Tom, gave you leads to what might help your client, if he falls into such examples and could document. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NECPA in NEBRASKA Posted March 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 Thanks, everyone. He gave up on the guns. He's looking for receipts for the range and names and dates of customers. I figured that he was just trying to turn a personal expense into an employee expense. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 I'm not a gun owner and would not want to be around when it happens, but I'm sure guns and ammo can be used in many entertaining ways that I might enjoy watching on YouTube. In fact, YouTube probably has many examples, most of which would not be deductible. Catherine, Judy, and Tom, gave you leads to what might help your client, if he falls into such examples and could document. My husband says that most of the hysterically funny/*stupid* videos on YouTube all start with someone saying, "Here, hold my beer and watch this..." and he has a point! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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