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Wow, I have put three kids thru post secondary school (one in graduate school now) on less than these two make. We have no debt to repay. Yeah, we eat beans and rice, rice and beans, and drive twelve year old vehicles. I can't get my head around $400,000 in student loan debt. There is something wrong when you think it's a good investment to pay $400K (plus the interest will probably be another $400K if you don't get moving on it) for a degree. If I were guessing, I'd say the loans went toward excessive living it up fees. You're right, they better step up the payments as soon as possible. And they owe the money, they need to pay back the money. I don't understand the apparent confusion with so many these days, thinking loan debt is some burden put on them by society. No, you did that to yourself. Pay what you owe. In the long run, reducing the payments just prolongs and intensifies the agony. People don't understand it, do they?

I'm on 2 other forums and rarely post there. When I'm on the internet, I leave a tab open to this site and pop in periodically throughout the day when I need a break between returns or when I'm frustrated. It helps to know others have similar struggles and successes that I'm going through.

Also, I do not use ATX anymore, but this is my virtual water cooler. Really smart colleagues. And, really nice, sharing, generous, funny colleagues.

I recreated your scenario while watching the Big Bang Theory last night (thinking it would make me smarter) and I got the same result, could not get it back to 1 even after I deleted the record from worksheet A. Went to bed and I think it came to me in a dream "remove the spouse's DOB". Sure enough, that did it this morning. Thanks for the tax dream. Can't wait until after tax season so I could get back to dreaming about riding in a Corvette convertible touring the wine country in Napa Valley.

I came to this board in 2013 but rarely posted as I thought I was busy enough on the official board keeping up. I have recently found something here that is different, still the same knowledge and expertise but an informality that addresses all the other nuances of this business we are all thinking, experiencing, and wondering, can we be alone? Not here, this is like therapy for tax professionals, helping each other, the comedy, and the best part, the nice people....priceless! Thanks, Bill

You were correct in your theory, they will be getting a form update out to fix the error you identified, but after the deadline. BTW, I'll never forget how you eased my concern when I thought I made a mistake on an EIC return. Had a tax nightmare seeing a $500 penalty. Yes, this is a great online office. Enjoy today, sounds like you'll be having a great day!

You and Kristin are geniuses! I can't get on Official Forum from home computer because I'm not smart enough to write down my password. I wanted to get on there and tell her my theory (which was wrong), but couldn't. Thank you so much, Bill, for looking into a problem that wasn't yours. I love my online office It's a beautiful morning here. I'm not looking at taxes, and after church and lunch, my daughter and soon-to-be daughter and I are watching my boys play church league basketball. I am a happy girl.

To everyone whose clients got IRS letters (and/or state letters), I think this means the new identity theft filters are working. We have had two clients get these letters from IRS this season, and in both cases a return had already been filed and IRS suspected something and was writing to verify. Neither taxpayer had filed yet, so those filters did what they were designed to do. The clients called IRS and had some difficulty proving they were the real taxpayer, but then were treated like royalty--thanked profusely for saving the agency so much work and given instructions on how to file their returns. Apparently the thieves, who are mostly organized international criminal gangs at this point and have loads of manpower and money, actually file fake W2s before they file the fake return. IRS has to go to employers to verify that so-and-so is really on the payroll, cross check state records for dependents, etc.--time consuming research. It is not very clear in the letters that another return was filed, just a sentence buried somewhere that if they didn't file yet to call or write. If your clients already filed, realize that the IRS letter was likely generated a few weeks ago so the letter is questioning the first return they received. (The real return was accepted because the account had been put in limbo.) While it may be a nuisance for your clients, it is saving all taxpayers bundles of money that would have been sent to thieves. Beats last year when one of our clients who hadn't filed yet got a letter from IRS saying that they were adjusting his refund by $160k because he'd neglected to record his estimated payments. Did they really think anyone would forget they paid in $160k?

Same here. I bailed out of ATX early in the 2012 meltdown, discovered Drake (thank God), and have never looked back. But I still like this forum, both for the camaraderie and for the total independence from meddling by any vendor.

I'm the red-headed step child using TW, and I LOVE this forum! Thanks, Rita, for inviting me!

And of course you're not offended by this, and are getting a good laugh out of it. I am.

Just can't go a year without giving him a shout out. Jainen, if you're lurking, hello and all the best to you!

Not yet, but getting there.

Not much else infuriates my spirit like that comment from my clients. Not much else.

I agree Rita. Doesn't make sense to me. I have a couple of local university profs who recently came in with their new Phd and a mountain of student loan debt. Whew.

Tom, this'll get you partway to TN. Rita, will this help us Northerners?

There are NO experts on ACA!! Only us tax professionals who have tried to learn about that extremely destructive, flawed and ridiculous set of INSURANCE laws. The IRS keeps changing the dates and rules about us enforcing that INSURANCE laws such that there cannot be any EXPERTS (not even in the government) on ACA.

Interesting. Thanks for the perspective. Guess I need to be on the lookout for something like this. Right after I become an expert on ACA.

If they actually put tax cheats in jail, the entire company of Intuit would be there...

Darn good thing your client hasn't seen the commercial with Anthony Davis where you get half off . It's right up there with touch a button on your smart phone and your return is done for free.LOL

I'm not even slightly offended (although maybe I should be). You're right - I'm getting an incredible, much-needed laugh!

I know you meant to say 'excluding jasdlm, who is top notch, always' and brings a breath of fresh air to the legal profession!

Whew! Now I can live without that fear hanging over my head.

I tried that exactly once. It was a lawyer -- who bills as much per HOUR as my entire fee was -- and he paid half. I did not invite him back the next year and frankly if he offered $1,000 per return going forward I wouldn't take him back. The level of disrespect shown to another professional was astounding.

Client dropped off a $20 off Tax Preparation coupon from H&R Block with his tax 'bits'. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to take that, but I think a $20 fee increase is in order .

I don't strive to be the cheapest, I strive to be the best! Although, I am very often the cheapest...

That would be the reason for the S election, not a C. It will increase his basis. If he needs to retain the money in the business, he can distribute only enough to cover the tax, 'retaining' the rest. He's in good shape having profit and not losses.

Just saw that Kristin did the same, that should complete your having a good weekend.

I first heard of the MFS student loan thing when one of my newly married couples came back to me to change to MFS because of the student loan marriage penalty. One spouse is just out of school, so not so great salary yet. The other makes a decent, but not outrageous salary. They pay a little bit more in tax MFS (and under community property the salaries are split in half, not like the example above. But the loan payments are much lower, and as a young couple starting out and trying to buy a house - and house prices here are going through the roof again...for a few years the loan payment makes life a little bit easier. But it I'm doing more MFS this year than in my whole time as a tax pro.

I have only acknowledged that the actual filing date is April 18 to those who have found out for themselves. For every other person I talk to, due date is April 15. Then on Friday, April 15 I can be a giant hero by... "...I have a connection that can allow me to get this in on time for you. However, there will be extra cost..."

$40 fee increase. Then very graciously honor the $20 off Tax Preparation coupon. Win-win.

And KC, and my pal Wendy.... those who prove the case by the exceptions!

Oh, I love when my couple who's been adding huge amounts to their withholding for years, due to those situations with all the phaseouts and extra taxes to fund Obamacare, finally get a big refund once in a while. I was thinking about the thief that stole my identity and made up a bunch of dependents and got every credit imaginable that all of us paid for with our honest tax dollars.

Just don't run toward her backyard.

Rita, if I ever meet you and you try to hug me, please don't be offended if I politely decline. Or even if I run the other way screaming "Somebody save me!"

Never. Not my Tom. Or any of my tax buddies here. You get real hugs not designed to measure for graves.

I know. I listened to my attorney and his attorney friend discussing which accountant they could hire for cheap to prepare exhibits for court. While he is charging me huge fees, he is talking about trying to find a cheap accountant. Hello? We already charge less than you, and that's if you invoice in human hours, not dog hours, which is what I suspect you do. Anyhow, he says to other lawyer, the guy I've been using is good, but he's not as good as she is (pointing to me). I wasn't smug at all. And I hugged him. And I meant it. I really did.

But NOT the back yard kind of hug!

Damn, I just did an MFS/MFJ worksheet because this couple keeps income separate and they want to see how much of the tax is generated by each. So all of a sudden, MFS is lower by a substantial amount. Think it might have something to do with the AMT fix that through for 2014. MFS requires so much more work in ATX. And I was about to shove this one off my desk. I'm doing several MFS already because of student loan repayment schedules and high medical....more than I've done in all my years of doing tax. Argh! I just want to get the damn things done at this point! Why do I have to be frikkin meticulous at this point!

This is the situation with one of mine. He was/is furious, went into the Knoxville office to inquire as to why his refund was held up. Mentioned that his kickass preparer thought it might be the large SS withholdings. Refund is 14,492. IRS agent says, "Nah, people have big refunds all the time, it's probably preparer error. You were mailed a letter on March 23 explaining but I don't know what the letter said." Well, the next morning the agent called him and said, "It appears to be the large SS withholdings... my supervisor will be calling you..." 1) Probably preparer error??????? 2) Communicate with SSA already. C'mon. 3) Client has not received any letter. I guess that's preparer error, too.

That's the dark underside of PTPs the sales guys never tell clients about.

Friday's WSJ had an article about this very thing, MLPs. They specifically mentioned Linn Energy LP, which is the one my client had. A billion dollar debt restructure, reported as cancellation of debt income on K-1. My client's share was $29k. Ouch. Another $8k to be reported as ordinary income. Ouch again. He sold units at a big loss, reported as capital loss, limited to $3k. Ouch a 3rd time.

I just finished a return today where I actually told the guy that I had never seen a good reason to smoke before this. If he didn't smoke, the insurance was affordable and he owed approximately an $800 penalty, since he smokes, the insurance was unaffordable and he got to keep his entire refund. He had insurance previously through work, but they dropped it due to ACA.

It's a whole new ball game out there. Young couple in my office Both are Lawyers. New ones. Both get paid $60k each. No Kids yet, but one in the oven. Combined Student loan debt? $400k. They file separate to keep the payments affordable. They are NEVER going to pay off the student debt. At $300 a month each, it will never happen. Difference between Joint and MFS? $282 between fed and state. The payments on the student debt would have tripled. I have two couples like this. And more to come. Why get married? Rich

I've only had a few clients over the years who actually questioned the bill. But in those cases I've always followed the advice to ask them "What do you think it should be?" They never have an answer, other than to say it should be less. So they don't have any idea of what's reasonable, but they are absolutely sure the existing charge is unreasonable. How stupid & illogical can someone be? (Don't answer that...) Anyhow, my response has always been to tell them to decide what's fair and send a check for that amount. I think in all these years only one person actually sent less than the amount billed. But in almost every case I made sure they went somewhere else the next year. If they didn't do so voluntarily, I took the initiative - usuallly by calling it to their attention next time around (if there was going to be one), and pointing out it will be larger the current year if all work is about the same as the year before. They need to know & acknowledge you're in the business to make a profit, not just to earn a wage. I don't want to do business with someone who doesn't trust me to charge them appropriately, and I don't want to do business with someone who is opposed to me making a profit. No sense being bashful about that.

I think the "Loos Ends" title is very appropriate and illustrative. The creative spelling is what attracted my attention to the topic. I actually I thought it was intentiona

This is the first I've heard of student loan repayment schedules being lower when people file MFS. Maybe it's because most of my clients are old (like me), and student loans aren't in their financial mix. But I've never run across this even among my younger & middle-age clients. Anyhow, here's my question. Does the lower payment come with a lower interest rate? If not, then that means they are probably paying more income tax solely for the purpose of getting a lower monthly payment. Sounds like false economy to me, since the additional taxes are essentially an increase in their 'effective' interest rate (their true all-in cost of borrowing money). But I guess if they fall for that, they are the same people who routinely sign up for 7-year auto loans or fool themselves into thinking that leasing a car is more economical than buying. Or those who do serial refinancing, paying exorbitant transaction costs to ratchet down their home mortgage rate a few points without regard for the payback period. I guess there is a pattern there.

My son showed me the engagement ring he bought for his lovely, sweet girlfriend Monday. They have almost finished building a house, she knows it's coming, and it's been a long time coming, if you know what I mean. I asked when he was giving it to her. Friday, but first I have to ask her Dad. (Awww.) Is that April Fools' Day? No, but, wow, you just gave me a great idea. Me: NOOOOOOOOOOO. Do not do whatever it is. Do NOT.

I don't charge extra for paper. If they want to paper file, I prepare the return. If they require e-flnging, I don't charge extra. I send them somewhere else.

I charge extra when, through no fault of my own, the return has to be filed by mail instead of electronic.