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I'm with Jack. No info to third parties. Anytime or for any reason.

This happened here over the summer. Some stoned guy without a shirt, stole a tractor and drove it to town. He was asking people for sandwiches in the Walmart parking lot. Report: Shirtless tractor driver yells for sandwiches Man's driver's license had been suspended

My grievous error has been corrected, with sincere apologies.

I agree with Judy. 2 likes and 2 laughs is more akin to an electoral vote rather than a popular vote. Don't anybody dare respond to this post. It is only in jest and it will be deleted if Judy deems it necessary.

We click on the "like" for a variety of reasons so you shouldn't use those as affirmation or agreement with the technical aspect of the post. Likewise, a perfect answer that is correct in all aspects may garner zero likes at all. If someone is wrong, we aren't shy about pointing out the error and continuing the discussion. You'd have to know the personalities of the posters and those using that function. Many of our members stop visiting or posting off-season, and since you joined on April 16th of this year you may not know everyone well enough to judge the tone yet. I wouldn't consider 2 likes and 2 laughs a whole gallery of members considering the number of posts, posters, and views this topic has already had. I can only speak for myself, but my "like" was the mention of Rita telling off her client wanting to deduct a swimming pool and the visual of someone driving industrial farm equipment to Walmart, plus we love Rita and her way of breaking the tension with her humor.

Well, I could probably lose money if I had to have a John Deere with a cab and AC and a radio like my high maintenance little sister. I'm good with being a sitting duck for hornets on my cabless Kubota. She's the baby and always gets what she wants but I'm not bitter or anything. In all seriousness, I have lots of grass thanks to my daddy, good fencing thanks to my farmhand kids, and cows that grow fat calves. I am a lucky girl.

I don’t know why driving a tractor to Walmart is funny to you people. My sister would do it in a heartbeat. And my sister in law drove one to the store to get cigarettes when she was 14.

You agreed with me but didn't like my post! I'm devastated.

Part of our reaction to your client's situation might have been because we didn't have all of the facts of this client's revenue stream, your mention of the NOLs, that he doesn't have any other job, and that it's hard to have time for anything else with his level of production and gross farm revenue. We now know that in addition to the farm operation and equipment sold, he has income from a separate trucking operation and machine rentals. JohnH made good points about the bank allowing the continued borrowing, and the ballooning debt you described is a problem. I've seen banks that use a client like this, one that looks great on paper with nice collateral and excellent credit, to prop up and offset other less-than-stellar loans in their portfolio.

I just went through an audit and the agent actually told me that it was selected because of 3 years of losses. This client went into the business of selling high end homes 3 million and up on average. 2013-no income just expenses, 2014-small income since she was apprenticing and only got a small percentage of commission. Expenses exceeded income. 2015 was more income but still showed a net loss. What saved us from having to argue the hobby rule with the agent is, a] she understood the business and knows the local market and b] 2016 had nice commissions and 2017 had a few large ones too.

I don't have any big-time farmers as clients, so I don't run into this type of situation. However, I agree that the lenders' practices are at the least highly suspicious. I can't recall how many times I've had to explain to clients why a bank turned them down because the bank lends money based on "ability to repay" rather than the size of the collateral. The client wants to borrow against the value of their assets, but the bank wants to see an income level sufficient to service the debt. Collateral is necessary, but it's usually the bank's fall-back position. Most banks hate to go after collateral when loan defaults. If what you describe is the norm, then it seems that banks dealing with farmers take a much different approach. The only way this guy can be continually buying new equipment is to roll over ballooning debt. One could jump to the conclusion that an underlying goal is to get possession of the land in the long run.

No problem - not intending to ask for an apology. We know each other well enough to not worry about that. It just seemed like a whole gallery of board members were tag-teaming with you to buy into the idea of a lying farmer when they didn't know the client or the situation. There is a worthy discussion about hobby income and why it should be avoided. You are forced to claim all the revenue on line 21 and are only allowed deductions on Sch A with a 2% throwaway. Imagine what $100,000 in farm revenue would do on line 21, and expenses limited on Sch A. To be honest, I would rather not even know about hobbies than to go through this phony collection activity on behalf of the IRS. But you can't ignore reporting $100K in revenue, especially when there are $15K in 1099s for machine hire. I congratulate you if you have your own farm operation and report a profit. Maybe 1/3 of my farmers report a profit, the rest of them are poor businessmen making uneconomic purchases, and even still have to pay a ton of tax money when they sell their property. One of the factors used by the IRS to determine hobby is how much time is spent on the activity - and if you have a farm yourself you can only imagine how much time is require to raise and sell $100,000 in a single year. For what it's worth, I am much more aggressive in disallowing Sch C losses than I am Sch F. And I won't put up with a farmer who spends $5000 in feed and $3000 in fertilizer, and never seems to sell more than 2-3 calves. Some of our job is knowledge of tax laws, and some of it is just plain common sense.

Update: I got the ownership info for this new client from the AZ Corp Commission website. NOW they are telling me that they intend to change the AZ LLC to a multi member, so it will a 1065 after all. I'm so glad I gave them a high estimate of fees with a retainer up front.

I never send any taxpayer information to ANY third party. Period. I will send it to the taxpayer, then they can pass it along to whomever.

Sorry, @BulldogTom, but I don't take "sucker bets" ever. LOL!

While the tax return is showing a loss due to depreciation, it would be obvious that he's not actually incurring a loss - right? Many real estate investors will go a decade without showing a profit on their tax return. $5 million in assets and he's recognizing $100k in revenue is the problem (I'm assuming you were just using a low example).

Well, in an abundance of caution on the part of the IRS, they have "temporarily suspended" their no-bid contract with the Equifax. Did someone read the newspaper finally at the Treasury Department and realize just how stupid they looked? But I bet Equifax still gets the contract in the long run because the IRS does not have a plan B in place for a different vendor to come in and take over security verification. I am willing to bet a Vende Fappuccino from Starbucks that the design of the security verification platform at IRS only works with Equifax. Tom Modesto, CA

Flow-chart please

Tom, I wish you luck. Personally I applaud you for advocating for your client & doing whatever you can to help him, rather than attacking him or rubbing salt in his wounds. Your approach is the mark of a true professional, IMO.

Are you electing out of the bonus depreciation too? Does the farm show a profit in enough years that profit motive won't be questioned, or is this a very expensive hobby?

I think this page from the IRS site on the topic might have your answer. The third paragraph under the heading of "Electronic Funds Withdraw" says this: I'm interpreting "due date" in that portion in bold to mean "4/15" so that, unlike when filing before 4/15 where the debit payment can be scheduled for a future date, when filing after 4/15 the payment date must be the same as date that the ERO transmits. I'd try transmitting again tomorrow with that as the payment date too.