Vote in my poll and consider joining us in

[Chrisbry]

Ultra Tax looked great until I read their support hours -- shorter than other software.

UT is awesome software -- but they will nickel & dime you to death to get everything you need. I like that ATX offers me ALL forms in one package (and that includes the 941, 940, W2's and 1099s).

That's the one thing about Drake that I'm a little hestitant on. I don't need a client write up program as all my clients use QB. I don't like doing things and two and three times to get the job done. Do it once, move on to the next client.

[ed_accountant]

I will be looking at other options, also.

Presently, I use ATX and Lacerte pay per version. I have found ATX is very good for simple basic individual returns only. I am using ATX of over 90% of my individuals. I chose ATX for cost alone. I have used it for 6 years. I have found ATX is terrible for any type of business return. Forms are never ready and state returns often don't calculate.

I always use Lacerte for all my business returns and for complex individuals. I always charge the extra cost to my client. Lacerte is very costly but always performs and I never have any issues. The program is great but very expensive. The presentation of the return and letter is exceptional.

In the past I have used proseries and found that to be better than ATX but not as good as Lacerte. I am considering trying Proseries again since they have changed / reduced their pricing .

ATx however has increased their pricing each year significantly.

[Bart]

I will be looking at other options, also.

Presently, I use ATX and Lacerte pay per version. I have found ATX is very good for simple basic individual returns only. I am using ATX of over 90% of my individuals. I chose ATX for cost alone. I have used it for 6 years. I have found ATX is terrible for any type of business return. Forms are never ready and state returns often don't calculate.

I always use Lacerte for all my business returns and for complex individuals. I always charge the extra cost to my client. Lacerte is very costly but always performs and I never have any issues. The program is great but very expensive. The presentation of the return and letter is exceptional.

In the past I have used proseries and found that to be better than ATX but not as good as Lacerte. I am considering trying Proseries again since they have changed / reduced their pricing .

ATx however has increased their pricing each year significantly.

Is Lacerte input forms based?

[Evan S. Golar]

I've used profx too, and checked it out when I went out on my own because that was all I'd ever used....but it is EXPENSIVE!!! (and owned by CCH by the way). but even back in 1999 it did everything. K-1 entry for 'state-if-different' is still something I miss whenever I have to do a K-1 adjustment in ATX.

So long as you'll be sharing program data on this site, why not also consider TTA's UltraTax? I haven't seen that discussed. I've been using it now for 5 years. It's certainly not cheap - but it's a lot less than CCH's Prosystemfx, and probably comparable to Intuit's Lacerte.

[OldJack]

I have found ATX is terrible for any type of business return.

I have been an ATX customer since before it was called ATX. My practice is mainly business tax returns and I don't understand why you think it is not the best for business tax returns? About the only individual tax returns I do are business clients with complex returns. I agree that ATX is not for those that do not know which form to enter transaction since it is a forms based software.

[SCL]

I keep reading how "ATX couldn't handle my complex return". Specifically, what makes such a complicated return? (Not trying to defend ATX, just wondering as it is something that I don't want to hear commented about on my version when it comes out.)

for me, this gets to the matter. tax prep firms with many and/or complex returns have several and very adequate tax programs (more expensive) to choose from. an intro program, following the model of parsons and even early atx, needs to address the needs of small/downscale tax prep business - then grow.

for example, don't try to serve the ohio state/local market from the get-go.

[joanmcq]

My most complex problems come from state K-1s, and state different passive loss carryovers. ATX is terrible for these; all differences must be calculated manually and the passive loss worksheet is not intuitive. Profx did all of the state differences seamlessly; with K-1s it had/has a 'state if different' column and the state k-1s are entered side-by-side with the federal entry. I know not all states have different K-1s, but CA does, and so do my NY clients. I stopped taking bonus depreciation on my own return just because the state/fed differences on my rentals were such a pain on the 8582 worksheet.

[Lion EA]

Our most complex returns come the latest, when we're the most sleep deprived. I'd love a program with great federal diagnostics that can jog my memory and help me get an accurate federal return prepared and carry everything to the resident state. Then, if in future years, it could handle multiple states with the same seamlessness...

[Linda]

Yes, I would. I miss my super support, and I have not yet received the print copy books included in my software order. I still like the software, but what good is it without good tech support? I like the forms based approach - I am a techie, and like to follow the flow. I used ProSeries long ago and was frustrated by not being able to see where my entries came from...I am a long time user, and sad to see the CCH "upgrades".

[Catherine]

When folks give their evaluations after tax season, could they please include at least _some_ pricing information? Possibly including pay-per-return pricing?

Lots of the vendors do _not_ put pricing on their info sites -- on purpose, so potential customers can get all excited about the functionality before they can get turned away by price.

But for me, at least, price is a big issue. While I'm not averse to paying more for something that really suits my needs, neither am I in a position to buy a $20K program for a one-person office. Yet if that same program had a per-return pricing scheme that would cost me, say, $2,000 -- then it might become a contender.

It's also easier to compare features of price compatible programs. "Just what _can_ I get for $1,000 - $1,500?" "How much extra _does_ the jump to $2,000 buy me?" That sort of thing.

Catherine

[joelgilb]

Tom, I don't know whether you saw my previous posting re this issue, but this year (2007) I bought

both ATX and Drake. Every other return I'm preparing with Drake. I was planning on reporting back to

everybody after tax season. Once you get the "hang" of not inputing directly on the tax form, Drake's

not so bad.

Booger

Didn't you already renew ATX?

As for Drake, I really did not like not at lease seeing the changes to the 1040 as they happened. Thought TAASC did the input sheet method much better with a copy of the graphical tax return (or line by line when in DOS) behind the input sheets. Really sped up preparation time.

Also started looking at TRX already and can't see why so many are switching to it other than that its dirt cheap. Here are some preliminary observations:

1. My main issues is that I felt it was too low level.

2. Had a graphical look and feel like ATX, with a + sign rather than the rabbit.

3. Look and feel being similar to ATX, made the transition in the demo quick to adjust to and reduced the learning curve. But if I were to switch, the learning curve is not an issue to me

4. Navigation was not as smooth as ATX but workable

5. Found the finding of business codes in TRX MUCH EASIER with a ful sheet of codes to look through and choose. Ok so this would not be enough to make me switch

6. Had a drop down calculator on fields that was useful, Did not like that it did not work like a 10 key.

7. Had a nice bookmark and note feature

8. Did not have near the forms or depth that ATX has, and that is important to me (ie: sales tax forms, State Corp Forms etc)

9. Forms Menu fixed on the side was easy to adjust to

10. Easy to add lists but did not appear to be available on many of the lines unless you override the line

11. Speaking of Overrides. took 3 steps to override a line. Now this may be picky, but it does slow the prep time down.

12. Did not like the front end interface and lost the return a couple of times and had a hard time finding my way back in. Once accidentally clicked the interview and could find my way back to the actual return. I think ovre time with the software would fix that though.

Not sure I will keep looking here, since I am sure I am not switching to TRX (still plan on renewing with ATX if it exists, even if I lose the early bird discount), especially since we now have a TRX forum and several have switched.

[joelgilb]

My 2 cents' worth.....

I voted "yes" in the poll, but what I would REALLY like to see is a NEW Software Company to introduce a product with the capabilities of ATX, i.e., not just income tax forms, but sales, tax, unemployment tax, personal property tax, state registrations, payroll forms.

ATX has been so much MORE than just an income tax return processing software. With ATX, I can do so much more than just the income tax returns.

And to add write-up capability, we would no longer need Quicken, QuickBooks, etc........

You are looking for "Mel-Tax"!!!

[joelgilb]

I have been an ATX customer since before it was called ATX. My practice is mainly business tax returns and I don't understand why you think it is not the best for business tax returns? About the only individual tax returns I do are business clients with complex returns. I agree that ATX is not for those that do not know which form to enter transaction since it is a forms based software.

Jack. I find ATX works for my business returns but I do think that software like Evan suggested "UltraTax" and Lacerte, both of which I have used are far more sophisticated and do a better job. For instance, in Ultratax, I loved the feature that automatically brought the K-1 information direct to the S-Corp Shareholder or Partners 1040' with no effort on my part at all.

Both were a bit pricey, but I still wonder if they could save me enough time to make the switch worthwhile. And if they can keep me from killing myself with all the overtime I have to do using ATX

[Lion EA]

I switched to ProSystem fx last year and loved it in spite of the price. Now, I think I'd be saying the same thing about Lacerte or Ultra Tax. They have so many features, run so smoothly, save so much time, that they are worth every penny. I never thought I'd use another CCH product after deciding to leave ATX, but their technical support blew me away while I was testing. And, it remained outstanding this tax season. You will like a high end product, Joel. And, the frustration it saves you will make the price worth it. (I do get a 50% discount for three years, which helps a lot, too.) If your clients are not the W-2 RAL crowd, you will love high end software, whichever one you choose.

[joelgilb]

I switched to ProSystem fx last year and loved it in spite of the price. Now, I think I'd be saying the same thing about Lacerte or Ultra Tax. They have so many features, run so smoothly, save so much time, that they are worth every penny. I never thought I'd use another CCH product after deciding to leave ATX, but their technical support blew me away while I was testing. And, it remained outstanding this tax season. You will like a high end product, Joel. And, the frustration it saves you will make the price worth it. (I do get a 50% discount for three years, which helps a lot, too.) If your clients are not the W-2 RAL crowd, you will love high end software, whichever one you choose.

WHat kind of pricing structure does ProSystem FX have? Thought it was as much or more than 10 times ATX. Think Lacert and UtraTax for the full product is closer to 4 times.

[joelgilb]

Jack. I find ATX works for my business returns but I do think that software like Evan suggested "UltraTax" and Lacerte, both of which I have used are far more sophisticated and do a better job. For instance, in Ultratax, I loved the feature that automatically brought the K-1 information direct to the S-Corp Shareholder or Partners 1040' with no effort on my part at all.

Both were a bit pricey, but I still wonder if they could save me enough time to make the switch worthwhile. And if they can keep me from killing myself with all the overtime I have to do using ATX

Replying to my own post here to correct something I wrote. When I said I tried Ultratax, I was mistaken it was Creative Solutions product I was referring to.

[Lion EA]

Ultra Tax is a Creative Solutions product purchased by Thomson, now their Thomson Tax & Accounting division. Lacerte is, as we well know, Intuit. And, ProSystem fx is CCH, a company I was not ever going to trust again. I purchased EVERYTHING, well almost everything tax from ProSystem fx this past tax season for under 200 returns; but e-filing on a pay-per-return price since the break even point was over 200 returns for that. No deferred comp plan returns, but individual and all states and all other entities and multiple computers; plus e-file pay as you go. I can't find my contract, and I'm paying monthly, no interest, so this isn't an exact price; but I'm paying something in the $4,000s, maybe $4,785 PLUS the efiling of $3.20 fed and $1.10 state per return e-filed. I've been paying $341.83/month after a downpayment that was, I think, about twice that; plus whatever e-files I incur in that month. Those amounts are before sales tax. Extension e-files were $1, and entities are more, I think; but I didn't e-file any biz returns even though I thought I would and might still for those I have on extension. I'm getting a 50% discount as a small business for three years. Then my costs will increase by 20% per return each year, or something like that. If I track down my contract (which I'm trying to pull out to compare with renewal paperwork I received) I'd be glad to fax it to you.

[Lion EA]

I think I have until the end of June or July for early renewal discounts, which I will take advantage of this year. Last year I was shopping and didn't buy until the end of November or during December. This year I'll invest in any training for myself and my assistant that looks good, no matter how much it costs. Last year, it was tax season and boom, on the job training. Luckily the tax support and tech support people were very available and very patient and very knowledgeable and very open to giving out their favorite tips and tricks along with answering my question of the moment. They track all calls, so when I called to ask what they'd told me two calls ago since I now had that situation come up; they were able to look it up and explain it to me! (There are also lots of built-in tutorials and on line tutorials and knowledgebase and built-in sample returns of all types, so I can explore something without trashing a client's return.)

[joelgilb]

... And, ProSystem I can't find my contract, and I'm paying monthly, no interest, so this isn't an exact price; but I'm paying something in the $4,000s, maybe $4,785 PLUS the efiling of $3.20 fed and $1.10 state per return e-filed. ... If I track down my contract (which I'm trying to pull out to compare with renewal paperwork I received) I'd be glad to fax it to you.

No need, that gives me enough of a general idea of the costs.

[joelgilb]

Ultra Tax is a Creative Solutions product purchased by Thomson, now their Thomson Tax & Accounting division. ...

Think I have early stages of OLDTIMERS Disease here! (pun intended - isn't it terrible when you have to explain you intended a pun so you don't look totally stupid?)

Anyway with all the mergers, purchases, etc., the names of the software are beginning to confuse me.

Taxwise -CCH - Universal Tax Systems (not UltraTax like I was thinking due to the mind fart I had)

CS UltraTax - Thomson Tax & Accounting - Creative Solutions...

Is there more?

Drake Tax Software - Drake - Drake

TurboTax / Proseries - Intuit - Chipsoft

[joelgilb]

Just had a very interesting conversation with TRX. I had downloaded the TRX software to take demo and evaluate it and they were calling me back to see if I wanted to join and get the TRX software for $299.00. Decided that it was not enough for what I do and was going to renew with ATX.

Then TRX suggested I look at their other software which is $699.00 and much more powerful. Was told the other software "TRX1040" is the full version of......

Wait for it......

Its Coming .......

And it is !!!!

TAXWISE!

A free download is available to demo at www.trx1040.com

You will need to provide contact information and then will be directed to the download url.

[Lion EA]

Good Grief! Not only are we contending with mergers and acquisitions, but not companies are supplying their software for other companies to market...

[Don in Upstate NY]

Good Grief! Not only are we contending with mergers and acquisitions, but now companies are supplying their software for other companies to market...

You mean like ATX used to do thru TaxCut which was owned by Block Financial Services?

[Karen Lee]

The company that wrote my write-up software along with A/R, A/P and P/R modules with a total cost of 3400.00 plus 1000./yr maintenance was bought out by Creative Solutions. Creative Solutions then offered me their write-up and modules at 50% discount plus maintenance. At that time I was a 1 person office working out of my home and had only been in business for myself a couple of years. Oh and the 50% discount brought the CS programs down to about what the purchase price of the original software. What a deal!!! Did I take it the deal? NO!

Did I become concerned about the acquisition of ATX? Yes

Do I let the chips fall where they may or do I take control of my own destiny?

After much deliberation, I will renew with ATX for next season. It is a lot easier to forgive myself for this decision than to blame someone else for what might happen. I believe there is risk involved with this decision but it is my decision and can only blame myself for the direction this takes me.

Karen

[Lion EA]

Hey, Joel. I just renewed my ProSytem fx. The salesman worked out a combination of Pay as You Process based on the numbers and types of returns I did this year that will be a bit less expensive. (If I decide to e-file entity returns, I won't save as much.) $4,357 for individual and all states and e-filing individual and preparing all business entities and states, but w/o e-filing the businesses. I can add e-filing for biz at any time. I can't pay monthly as I did this year, but it's a downpayment then the rest of the "license" fee type stuff this fall then the pay as you process stuff monthly as it occurs. So, that still spreads it out over at least six payments, and probably more as I have a lot of extensions and a few fiscal year clients and many procrastinators. I did not get stressed by my software or by tech or tax support this season, and that's worth a lot of money to me.