Late-season price shoppers

[BLACK BART]

I've had a couple this week. They avoid CPAs (too pricey) and shop the small independents (like me) for the cheapest rate.  It's almost a pattern; they call for an "appointment" (I take  everybody as a walk-in) and are disappointed when I say so (their stuff is very "important").  But they ask anyway how much for, like "a small farm rent and one or two W-2s" (to them, everything, including 1099s is a "W-2").  So I, always looking to drag in new blood (it's getting scarce), will quote maybe $225 or so to get 'em in the office (while I detest "up-selling", I'm willing to compromise to a certain extent for the greater gain).  Later in the afternoon, a spiffy crew-cab pulls up in front of the office and I can see him/her sifting through their papers. The longer it takes them to exit the car, the problems grow exponentially. Then they deposit either a cardboard box or accordion file on my desk. This last guy with the "small farm and a W-2" DID have a small farm rental, but he also had 14 separate 1099s, one a non-farm box 7 requiring at least a C-EZ, and including a Morgan-Stanley 1099-B listing 19 individual stock sales (no, all basis was NOT reported to IRS, and an 8949 WOULD be required rather than lumping everything as totals on a long and short "D").  Mercifully, this ended quickly when, still-undershooting, I told him it was at least $500 and he quickly stuffed everything back in the box saying "Oh, I can't afford anything like that."  This, as he tucks away his 1099-INT of $3,800 or so and a 5498 listing $160K.  When he leaves, I ask myself why did I bother since you can almost smell 'em when they call.          

[Lion EA]

I quote high on the phone.  It never ends up being high when I get into their stuff, but at least I'm closer.  And, I weed out the price shoppers who would go somewhere else after a year anyway.  If they sound really complex, I tell them I'd be glad to quote them a price after they drop off last year's return for me to look at.  Hardly anyone does that.  Plus, I'm taking NO new clients now unless they go on extension.  Hardly anyone calling now does that, either.  

[RitaB]

Mine with "W-2s and a rental property," showed up yesterday.  Turns out the rental property is in SC and HRB completely missed the depreciation in 2014.  It never occurs to me to ask WHERE rental properties are.  Well, it does now. And yeah, one of the "W-2s"  was military retirement. Thankfully, all I had told him about price was that I am usually less than HRB.  (Always, but I was trying to play it close to the vest.)  He wasn't really a shopper, because he was happy with what I said.  I think he just knew he paid too much in 2014.  When I fix the 2014, I think he'll be a loyal client in the future.  And I have never seen so many pages of bull crap unnecessary and meaningless paper in my life as was in his copy of 2014.

* The above comments are not intended to bash every HRB preparer, just this one in My Town, TN.

[Possi]

I am feeling very fortunate to have a client base of 500 and I only take personal referrals. I did some marketing 15 years ago when I started working for myself, but the clients I got from real advertising (online)  were never loyal. Never. More importantly, I work from home and I prayed about not having strangers in my home. This was the answer.  I wasn't having to support myself back then or I would have starved by year 3.

I turned away maybe 5 this year because they didn't know someone personally. One told me that several people recommended me but didn't have one particular name. I asked how... They said I was mentioned on a military spouse website. I told them (husband and wife on the phone) to make a friend and give me the name! LOL

So, the "shoppers for prices" take care of themselves. I don't take them. It's really different working from home. I don't think I could do that so easily if I worked from an office on Main Street.

[Richcpaman]

1 hour ago, RitaB said:

Mine with "W-2s and a rental property," showed up yesterday.  Turns out the rental property is in SC and HRB completely missed the depreciation in 2014.  It never occurs to me to ask WHERE rental properties are.  Well, it does now. And yeah, one of the "W-2s"  was military retirement. Thankfully, all I had told him about price was that I am usually less than HRB.  (Always, but I was trying to play it close to the vest.)  He wasn't really a shopper, because he was happy with what I said.  I think he just knew he paid too much in 2014.  When I fix the 2014, I think he'll be a loyal client in the future.  And I have never seen so many pages of bull crap unnecessary and meaningless paper in my life as was in his copy of 2014.

* The above comments are not intended to bash every HRB preparer, just this one in My Town, TN.

Raise your rates, girlfriend.  Then you have to do less digging....

 

 

[RitaB]

36 minutes ago, Richcpaman said:

Raise your rates, girlfriend.  Then you have to do less digging....

Eh, it doesn't work that way in My Town, TN.  Even the rich men CPAs charge less than HRB here.  I like to compete with everybody.

Actually the only preparer in this town that I'd take my taxes to if I were not in this business is a CPA whose rates are right in line with mine.

[Jack from Ohio]

I have no need for clients that come to me because I am the cheapest.  I do NOT give price quotes over the phone and, like Lion, "...I'd be glad to quote them a price after they drop off last year's return for me to look at.  Hardly anyone does that..." 

I have one complete file drawer full of "came to me because I was cheaper" clients and they all left the next year.

I am a qualified, trained and certified professional.  I do NOT consider it a "constitutional right" for tax preparation to be cheap and easy.  Think Doctor, Lawyer, Plumber, Electrician, Auto Technician...   I am JUST as much a professional and do not need to discount my work.

[RitaB]

3 hours ago, RitaB said:

Thankfully, all I had told him about price was that I am usually less than HRB.  (Always, but I was trying to play it close to the vest.)  He wasn't really a shopper, because he was happy with what I said.  I think he just knew he paid too much at HRB, and the preparer missed the depreciation, too.

 

21 minutes ago, Jack from Ohio said:

I have no need for clients that come to me because I am the cheapest.

Nor do I.  I do enjoy getting clients whose previous preparer overcharged and made mistakes like overlooking depreciation.  Win / win.  Happy / Happy.

[RitaB]

9 minutes ago, RitaB said:

I do enjoy getting clients whose previous preparer overcharged and made mistakes like overlooking depreciation.  Win / win.  Happy / Happy.

Previous preparer charged $366 for wages, pension, Sch A, Sch E missing the depreciation, South Carolina (also missing the depreciation, of course). 

Oh, and $11 in interest income.  Check.

Any price is too much for what this guy got in 2014. 

[Lion EA]

My specialty is taxes, unlike CPAs who must train in auditing, accounting, etc., as well as taxes.  I aim to charge more.  Still running about 20% less, but getting there.  Also, I aim to charge more than HRB.  Came from a premium HRB office and held prices constant for three years for continuing clients, but higher for new clients.  That was years ago, so all prices increase now.  In pricey Fairfield County, people think you're not good if you're not expensive.

[FDNY]

I also consider my specialty taxes, schooled in accounting and I'm a CFP and literate in other areas of personal financial planning areas, I sell no products.  I pride myself in researching what I don't know and will be available all year to a client.  But nickel and diming me on my fee or saying I'm too expensive (which I am not), I have no time for these people.

[joanmcq]

I start right out with the 'You are going on extension'.  Actually now I'll tell them how to file their own extension. And if they want, I'll set up an appointment for May. Otherwise, I really don't care if they call back. 

[jklcpa]

1 hour ago, Lion EA said:

My specialty is taxes, unlike CPAs who must train in auditing, accounting, etc., as well as taxes.

 

We've had this discussion before and need to get away from who has what letters after each of our names. I continue to be offended by remarks that seem to indicate that a CPAs level of knowledge is somehow inferior to that of EA.  To earn that designation, we had to have a college degree in the field, years work experience with %s in each area, as well as passing the exam. In addition to the area of tax, that education and experience gives a more well-rounded base of knowledge to be able to handle those entities that others of you struggle with.

In addition to that, please keep in mind that many CPAs do choose to practice in only one area, and may choose to focus solely in the area of tax, just as you yourself have done. Also, many of us CPAs that do choose a tax-only focus have gone on to earn advanced graduate degrees such as a Masters of Taxation, and that includes some of our membership here.

Please don't lump us all into one giant generalized melting pot that makes it seem inferior to your passing the EA exam.  Truly, there are some on here with fancy letters after their names that can't seem to figure out how to Google or think to look in the forms' instructions!

/rant

 

[joanmcq]

Yup, MSBA Taxation here.  AND I understand accounting.  Should I start saying 'unlike EAs who only focus on tax and aren't trained in accounting' every time we are discussing a business entity with a balance sheet?

[FDNY]

CPAs are the cream of the crop in our profession, there's no disputing that.    There is so much to know out there that letters after a name are an indication that you have made an extraordinary effort to acquire the knowledge needed to be a professional.  There are also people out there without credentials who are very smart, I've seen that in the engineering field and tax preparers who are self taught and very good at their trade.

But in any profession, and it can't be generalized, there are people with credentials that are just not that good.  Yes, they passed their exams, but they they never kept up.  I don't see that here, because if any of us was one of them, we wouldn't be here.  You're here because you're good and care about what you do.

 

[RitaB]

Yeah, and I'm over here with no initials but purty good at Google and I got a 1900 square foot commercial building with a possum or something under there tearing up creation. Got a trap set, hope I get him today.  And there's a tax preparer and a feed store and a golf course here every 2.13 miles.  The cost of living is cheap, and if I wanna charge less than you people in those rip off states, it's my prerogative.

And y'all don't be fussing, we got a week to go and we're fam.  Don't make me cry. 

P. S.  I'm gonna crush the Enrolled Agent exam in 2016.

[FDNY]

You're the best Rita, and I could tell you can handle anything that comes your way.  I hope you get that possum so you could tell me how to get rid of the skunk that's been ripping up my lawn every year looking for grubs or whatever.  This city kid needs some help.

[Richcpaman]

25 minutes ago, RitaB said:

P. S.  I'm gonna crush the Enrolled Agent exam in 2016.

Absolutely.

RIch

[Gail in Virginia]

I have an EA, as well as a bachelor's in accounting.  I have a woman working for me who just passed the EA exam, and yet she can't seem to correlate the information that she put on the exam with the real world.  One of these days I might take the CPA exam, but so far I have not had the time, energy or money to bother.  I don't think the letters after your name are nearly as important as what you do with what is between your ears.

[jklcpa]

I personally don't pay too much attention to who has what label and try to treat everyone here equally.  I do get perturbed each and every time I see a comment about the CPAs though, because to the best of my recollection, none of the CPAs helping out on here has ever said or implied the reverse, you know, implying that that EAs (generally speaking) could be weak in some areas that we end up dealing with and asking questions about.  Joan's post above was spot on, we don't go down that path on this forum.    

[RitaB]

30 minutes ago, FDNY said:

You're the best Rita, and I could tell you can handle anything that comes your way.  I hope you get that possum so you could tell me how to get rid of the skunk that's been ripping up my lawn every year looking for grubs or whatever.  This city kid needs some help.

Here's how to take care of skunks:  Refer!  Refer!  Do NOT try to be a hero here.

You're the best, too.  You all are.  Sniff.  Sniff.

[jklcpa]

Back to the topic, almost no one gets in the door without a referral so those last minute price shoppers aren't much of an issue. If I don't recognize the name on caller ID, it goes to voice mail and only call those back that mention a referral or sound interesting.

[RitaB]

4 minutes ago, jklcpa said:

...sound interesting.

My possum really sounds like he has a lot of tools under there.  He's building a condo, I think.  I caught one two weeks ago, and relocated him/her to a lot in front of our movie theatre.  It's a nice lot.  My boys roll their eyes and say, "Only mom would take a possum to the movies."

[jklcpa]

2 minutes ago, RitaB said:

My possum really sounds like he has a lot of tools under there.  He's building a condo, I think.  I caught one two weeks ago, and relocated him/her to a lot in front of our movie theatre.  It's a nice lot.  My boys roll their eyes and say, "Only mom would take a possum to the movies."

 

I love possums. Last year I was working late and heard a noise outside my door and opened it to see a possum knocking to get in.  He didn't have a referral either, so we wished each other well and said a pleasant goodnight.  

[michaelmars]

Initials don't mean anything, there is book smart and real life smart. All it means is that at some point in time someone learned some book knowledge and regurgitated it at test time.  It does show the person has the ability to learn but not to retain or apply the knowledge.

By best preparer never passed the exam nor bothered going for EA but he thinks about every entry and is very smart.

A CPA can prepare financial statements, it has nothing to do with taxes.  I took some tax classes that mostly dealt with theory. Never saw a tax form in school.

-Michael CPA, MA, BS, BA.    [ oh yeah, EMT, CPA, 1st Dan Ju Jitsu, and according to my staff a real PIA]