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Long time business client didn't tell me she closed up shop in mid-Dec even when she dropped off her payroll records for the 4th quarter and year-end filings. Her records are a total mess and she always complained about something (I took too long, my fees are expensive, etc). She got a buh-bye letter this evening. I am relieved that I don't have to look at that mess any longer.

Michael: You got my attention with just the descriptions. I don't happen to owe you any money, do I?

"Wah Lum Kung Fu double broadswords" I had to google these, nice swords. here is my favorite pic

No you can't shoot them but many idiots don't know that. My office is full of 2nd amendment and NRA posters, a few of my martial art trophy's, a display of swords and Escrima sticks, etc. My receivables are -0-.

My new policy on simple returns is to tack on $50 for the first “it’s simple” and $25 for each subsequent “it’s simple,” up to three. Then it’s gonna be, “You’re right, this is really too simple a return for me to prepare as I specialize in difficult returns. Thanks for calling, but I can’t take this engagement.” "I should just do this myself," gets a punch in the stomach thru the phone.

My clients get paper copies in a nice folder (the ones Tenenz sells), plus a CD (a nickel a pop) with all their original doc's and all their tax doc's as pdf's, all of those password protected (as MA requires). CD tucks in to the back of the folder. Original paper docs go there, too, IF they fit - else the client has usually brought them in in their own folder (or something) and they go back the same way. In theory, they can chuck the all the paper and just keep the CD. They all keep the paper, though. I do go through the return with every client who comes in. With those who get sent packages by mail, I usually send a review copy of the most-crucial forms by the file portal for questions first. (That - for the most part - takes care of the "what about all my donations to Goodwill" questions where my answer is "WHAT donations to Goodwill" and saves lots of paper. And aggravation.) Also in the paper returns we highlight neither the refund nor the tax due, but rather the "total tax" line (which I call "the amount they get to keep"), since that is what I want people to take note of. This - plus the comparison page - also helps when the inevitable "why did I get more back last year" questions crop up.

I agree with Lion EA. I worked for HRB up until a year ago and there was very little preparers could do to change prices from what the software generated for individual returns and I often thought prices were too high for the work involved. However, there was more flexibility with others such as business returns and even amended and prior years' individual returns. So probably the preparer just put $1 into the billing program to get the return into the system as a paid return. I have even done that and charged 1¢ and it worked, resulting in what I considered a fair total price for the 2 returns!

Just picked up a 7 year old retread client. 2 W-2s and a 1098INT. Price increase over normal is happening. After tax year 2008, they have not communicated with me. Their info was in my drop box today. I don't know if their return fits the description of "simple?"

I review very few returns with the client. I am in communication with a good many of them all year long and we both have a good handle on how the return is going to look. For the rest, we have a check-in system whereby one of the girls ask the client a series of pertinent questions and then if anything looks strange during prep I get in touch with the client. I print the client copy and one of the girls check the client out going over highlights that I have made. If there are any further questions, I am called in to answer more technical questions. Having another member of the firm in the meeting allows me to get in and get out with very little time spent. This system is what allows me to prep over 500 returns during filing season - and still maintain what little bit of sanity I have left. We have been paperless (or less paper, more appropriately) since 2006 but continue to supply the client with a paper copy. We have two or three clients that like us to give them digital copies but we still give them a paper copy with the digital copy.

"it's a simple Return". Ok, what do we have? Bankruptcy Foreclosure New Schedule C for a Financial Advisor (after bankruptcy? Wow...) But I still have my same job and two kids... Sheesh. Rich

I print everything, client and preparer, to .pdf. I store the preparer copy digitally. From the pdf, I can use my printer's duplex function the way I want. I stopped printing paper copies for myself 5 years ago. I also give my clients the option of a flash drive. I have purchased a large number of 4GB flash drives for $4 each. I just copy the client pdf to the flash drive and give it back to the client. Most of my clients take advantage of this. Saves me a ton of time and paper. In addition, I can easily include the worksheets I want the client to see without making the "packet" I used to give them much larger.

THATS OVERTIME, MY FEE JUST 2X.

We can, can't we? Hey, Catherine, isn't there something in the second amendment about well-regulated militia and tax preparers and jerky wannabe clients?

Electrocution thru the phone.

OK. So what's the penalty for "You could probably do my return in your sleep." ??

Remind me to never, ever make you mad. You could be scary if ever crossed. Tom Newark, CA

I give the client paper returns. Review it with client. Some clients, very brief, usually just mention similarities to prior year, nothing in particular to point out. Unless there is something to point out. Some might ask some questions, etc.

Years ago when I was at Block, their proprietary software priced the individual returns for us and there was little we could do to lower the price. The few workarounds we had got fewer and fewer each year. But, the entity returns were done on ATX, and we entered in the price ourselves, supposedly from a price list HRB provided. So, if I wanted to give a client a discount who had both personal and business returns, I had to charge him full price for personal but could enter anything I wanted for the business return from $1 on up so it would show as paid before we transmitted. (Personally, I think a total of $380 for a partnership and personal return is too cheap.)

Quotes from the other topic that got me thinking about how I could change things:

I almost never review a return with the client. Very few ask for it. Some review it at home and call/email with questions. Some review it in the lobby and interrupt me if they have questions my office manager can't answer. I suspect that many never even open the envelope they pick up at the front desk. Most of my clients still get a paper copy but I only print out the 'highlights'.

Isn't it amazing that the same Lingo is a National Art? Thank you HRB and TurboTax commercials! And, Liberty will NOT do it for free. I do prepare returns for ACTIVE military pro bono.

No NRA posters in my office but beside the door to the inner office (mine) is a photo of me with my Wah Lum Kung Fu double broadswords. Maybe on the other side of the door I should put up a picture of myself on the line at the spring rifle league matches. @Margaret CPA in OH you remember holding my pretty purple rifle don't you?

When I was at HRB, they had us add $1 in interest to be able to e-file. Your software may have an override, or you may be able to get a code from tech support. But, I think it's an IRS e-file thing. I'd do the $1 and be done with it.

I hope that was over the phone, so you were able to resist the need to hit him?

Had one walk in off the street this week who had the return done last year by a local back porch preparer (translated low fee). Asked our fee. We prefaced the response with, it is going to be A LOT more than last year and then quote him a number. He says he would rather pay that and know that it is right. (I should mention that this guy was referred by an ex-client). Then this guy proceeds to ask if we give military discounts. I ask if he is in the military and he says no, but I was. Then he proceeds to mention that Liberty will do the return for free. I start for the door to open it so he does not break it when I kick him out but he stops me and says, I will pay whatever you charge me because you come highly recommended. This ought to be fun.

OK, I started this topic to continue a discuss about printing that one of my questions had the potential to derail. Highlights: I'm paperless but still review the paper returns with the clients from their client copy, then I get the e-file authorizations signed. Comments about providing client copies on flash drives was made and I asked how those review the returns with the clients, on a computer screen? I'd like to continue the discussion here, and I'd like to hear about others of you handle your meetings and finished products. I'd still like to review aspects of the return with the clients. I've mostly been using the 3-year comparison because it is a great summary of the return all on one page, and the clients seem to like that. I do show them the state return because many of my clients are older and are receiving benefits of DE's additional exclusions for those over 60 and 65.

Client has been bugging me for a couple days to send the K-1s for the trust from his mother's estate. He had emailed a document that according to him had' everything I needed.' That return finally made it to the top of my to-do stack. Turns out all he provided in the email attachment was the amount of each beneficiary's distribution. I told him I need the trust's income & expense info to prep the 1041. He told they don't care about the 1041 right now, I can do that later. All they want right now are the K-1s. Deep sigh. How quickly can April 18 get here?!?!?

My family will tell you that my temper is flash-in-the-pan. Something gets me royally ticked off, for ten seconds I yell at whatever thing has offended me (or some inanimate object for when the thing is a client or family member), it's done. Can't even remember it; don't hold grudges. I'm generally a happy person.

Yup, I can vouch for Catherine's scary weapons. I was very polite during my visit - and so was she. And her awards collection is awesome! I just run marathons and scuba dive...

I was trying to go to GuideStone yesterday before I posted it on this board, but their website was down for maintenance. I take their publications as gospel (pun intended) when it comes to minister tax issues. I will read these a bit later. Thanks Rita. Tom Newark, CA

I was thinking of switching to flash drives because I've had two clients tell me their new computer doesn't have a CD drive. I was also considering encrypting the flash drives so if they lose it somewhere, they don't have to worry.

I found two articles that might help. The quote from Pub 517 in KC's first post seemed to agree with me on the need to be an employee, I think. (Use of the word employ.) Anyhow, these are not exactly from the horse's mouth, but they might get your there. http://www.freechurchaccounting.com/housing-allowance-for-evangelists.html http://churchlawgroup.com/resources/blog/are-traveling-evangelists-entitled-to-a-housing-allowance/ Although I didn't see your issue addressed (but I may have missed it), I thought this document from Guidestone would be an excellent thing to give to churches and clergy: https://www.guidestone.org/~/media/GuideStone%20Corporate/Ministry%20Tools/2166_MinTaxIssues%20pdf.ashx

Don't worry about it, but do take a break. I've been trying to proofread a partnership for a week, maybe more. Finally finished and printed it. Don't know why I can't let go. Just always checking one more thing! I need to pick up speed. Promised some things for Wednesday when I see biz clients and other things are due Friday in NY and it's closing in on corporations and.... I tell my kids to strive for excellence, not perfection. Perfection isn't always possible, especially with ambiguous tax laws. Really dreading some 1095s this year, for instance. You've warned your client what could go wrong and to notify you immediately if she gets any letters, right? So, hand her the paper returns to sign and mail. You've done your best with the information you collected.

Thanks Nellie and I did check the Schedule C to see if the active participation was checked and it is. Thanks again for your willingness to try and help. It is appreciated.

Filing a joint return for other than just a refund would negate the dependency for your client. But, granddaughter is not going to file MFJ. I think you're OK. Paper. Actually less of a problem if daddy filed claiming baby, as IRS will write to both of them but probably after sending refund.

Without being able to question the ladies, I agree with Terry. Except, granddaughter files MFS on paper. However, with a birth during 2015, there are bound to be lots of medical/insurance/medicaid forms around that might have baby daddy's SSN on them; if so, e-filing will work. You may discover that daddy claimed his baby. If so, parent trumps grandparent.

Hey, can't blame a guy for trying, right? LOL Think about him this way. Just be glad you got that out of the way up front. Much nicer than when they wait till you've done all the work, then start 'bargaining' over the fee. That's the kind that make you wish you could just shoot them.

https://www.facebook.com/171371406296691/videos/738072522959907/

THE CAT TRAP WORKED.

Foregoing your fee on this one (if that is what happens), should be considered an investment in your long-term productivity and peace of mind.

I tell my clients "don't let the tax wag the dog". If it makes sense without the tax credit to install the panels, do it. If you want to "green" the planet because you don't like fossil fuels and you don't care about the economics, do it. If you want to use this as a way to save tax, I will run the numbers for you so you can make an intelligent tax decision. But please....please....PLEASE do not take tax advice from the salesmen. Tom Newark, CA

You nailed it there. I could not believe I had a lady in here worried about what she was going to make on the sale of a rental. I think she was actually trying to figure out if she should sell it for less because of taxes. I stopped her and said, "STOP thinking that way. Sell it for all you can. Taxes have ZERO to do with the decision about what to sell this house for." I thought her husband was going to cry he was so happy. "Yes. Thank you, OMG, thank you for telling her that."

Getting all the pages you want and just the pages you want is the hardest thing about ATX. You can tame the beast with Print Packets. It's a tedious process and the print packets don't have everything so you can only get it about 99%, but it makes it livable. edit: I forgot to mention customizing master forms. I check a ton of boxes on the master forms to print certain pages.

Thank you. Upon further review and the fact that it was his idea that I release him to go elsewhere and the blatant stupid and volume of the questions and strategies - he was most likely trying to drive me nuts on purpose. I gave him a copy of the return for review, I suspect the IRS will be getting a copy from him that looks exactly like it in a few days.

I reread your posts about this client, and from what you've posted here, you don't have anything to worry about. He may try to blame you, but his next victim preparer will figure him out soon enough. He may bad mouth you around your area, and this should be the worst of it. That will die down and people should see him for the complainer he is. Don't lose sleep over this guy because clients like him are nothing but a time suck to the detriment of your other existing clients or your ability to fill that time with other new, good ones. You'll be better off financially in the end because you won't have to answer his dozens of questions that he chooses to not want to understand anyway.

Finally I got to talk with the help desk person who actually knew something. All is well now but it wasn't intuitive at all to find the efile record. In fact, I don't find much of any IRS or related websites intuitive. I mean, why does one first go to Application for this list?

Teach me how to do that???

Crying. Oh, my aching back.

On a happier note, my first client of the day was an elderly Japanese man that I've known for my entire career. He put his trust in me when I went out on my own and is one of my most interesting and favorite clients to visit with. He almost always brings me a little trinket from his world travels, usually something to do with local custom, and always with an interesting story. Today he handed me a small weighty box that he insisted I open. In it was a crystal with etching inside it of an origami crane. Also in the little box was a tiny origami crane that he made for me himself. The crane is the bird of happiness and a symbol of good fortune and longevity. I can only hope to enjoy the good health and years that he has. He is in his late 80s now and still travels all over the world to lecture on his field of science.

I love you, Jack, but I still think your position on this one is silly. It benefits not only the client and the preparer, it also benefits the IRS when we efile a return, and I do not consider it a lie at all, since everybody has normally had, over a year's time, some 'unreported income' of at least a dollar. Like the quarter I found on the ground next the the gas pump last time I filled up, the nickle I found in the change slot of the vending machine at the hospital last week, along with my own quarter in change, etc. And yes, there is a big difference in $1 and $100, because one makes no difference to the taxes and the other probably does. But I don't see it as any difference than the issue of amending a return for a late arriving 1099. The IRS says clearly that you should NOT file a 1040X that makes no change to the amount owed or refunded, unless it involves some other significant item. And when doing an audit, they will write up as a 'no-change' any audit where the changes they did find did not change the bottom line more than $50, where there are no other issues that might affect a past or future return.