Mainetaxguy Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 Think about it. Does anyone really feel that the ATX programers are so stupid to come out with a bad software program? I find it hard to believe that no one did any quality control or checks. I suspect something else is going on here. I suspect that ATX programers may have deliberately sabotage ATX by coming out with a lousy program. Why? Because based on what we have read here, many programers felt they were overworked and underpaid for their efforts. Under those circumstances, what else did they have to lose but give us a bad program. By sabotaging the ATX, maybe the programers hoped they would get the attention of upper management. Or maybe they had a more sinister motivation - come out with a bad program that would force some upper management staff (e.g., Jeff) to resign. This is just a theory, but it could explain what is going on right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BulldogTom Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 That would take a major conspiracy from all the programmers, and their supervisors. Too many people to pull off a scheme that big. I like this better, CCH tells the programmers they have 1 year to do what should take 3. The programmers say it can't be done, CCH says do it or else, and this piece of crap software with great potential is released at least 1 year too soon. When it becomes obvious that CCH made a mistake, they made Jeff the patsy and fired him for not pulling off their ill concieved, stupid, and irresponsible vision. Who knows, I may be way off base, but I don't think the programmers would work together to sabotage their own jobs. Tom Hollister, CA 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacun Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 Programmers are not tax preparers and therefore they cannot fully test their program. Not everybody is having issues with the software. I am sorry to say, but so far, I have had less issues than in previous years. All my issues have been minor and if I was hired to be a tester, I think I would have OKed the software based on my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joelgilb Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 Beta testing means that they should have had a lot of users test the software. While one will have little or not problems, others will. This is why developers beta test. ATX clearly did not do that, but rather issued a software in the Alpha stages. Plus the programmed the software in Raven DB, an open source database engine. A company with the money CCH and their parent company has saving money by using a Free DB... really? Unconscionable! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 I like a combination of BulldogTom and Joelgilb comments. Plus if Pacun is like me (I haven't had major issues either) and is on a stand alone one person machine, I suspect the major problems are with the network/server people. I think there were just too many shortcuts and as mentioned, probably budgetary constraints. This kind of thing comes from the top. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry O Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 I am a stand alone - - single preparer - -that had nightmares in the beginning. Multiple hrs on hold - - multiple "fixes" with customer support and tech - -and a one on one with one of the programers. I figured that just like taking a car to the mechanic or going to the Dr office, the program would act fine for him - -but halleluiah- - it kept crashing for him. He had NO IDEA what was going on - - -but I realize that I just have to deal with no rollovers of any complex returns, and have to start from scratch. I am learning to deal with the "lag" on input, and now taking at least 2-3 times as long to get a return prepared, checked, printed and efiled. A few returns yielded a whopping $2/hr!!!!!! And - - I believe that a beta testing of 75 prepares is nowhere large enough for the number of subscribers. My 2 cents! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfassett Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 On a network here running Server 2003 with workstations running XP with 2GB RAM and have had very, very few issues - nothing that I could not figure out, fix or work around or ATX addressed in a subsequent update. And I have never been accused of being a geek. So go figure. I don't believe any of the conspiracy theories - just too hard to pull off. Perhaps too early of a release. Or perhaps the beta testing that they did do did not contain a representative sample. I am a forward looking person though. We can sit around and beat up CCH and ATX all day long, but that is not productive for me. Mistakes were made, learn from them and move on. Off to tax returns I go. Hi ho, hi ho, its off to work I go, I go,hi ho, hi ho, hi ho.............. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack from Ohio Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 I was told that they released 1,000 copies of the new software in October... From a technician... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HV Ken Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of meeting the schedule has been forgotten. I know for a fact they were working on this for two years and had a small amount of testers. I felt from day one their schedule was too aggressive, and now that we are in the midst of this debacle, it is also clear that their software development environment is inadequate - there is no way we should have to wait 1.5 weeks for an update. They should be putting out more frequent focused updates, rather than bundling many unrelated updates into one big release, which just introduces more unintended problems. In my former life, I worked in software development - this is rather easy to accomplish with the proper infrastructure. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HV Ken Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 One of our favorite sayings when I worked in software development was: Price - Speed - Quality -- choose two Unfortunately in this case, I think they only chose one.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chowdahead Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 I think it would be incredibly naive for anyone to believe that ATX didn't know about these issues prior to releasing this year's software. Besides the stability issues, there are a slew of other quality control and bugs that could not have possibly gone unnoticed during testing. I'm happy for those users on having few issues. However, according to a Drake salesperson I spoke to, he indicated they have seen tons of ATX users suddenly switching so I am guessing the users with smooth ATX 2012 experiences are far and few between. However, I cannot believe that ATX programmers would deliberately do this. I think they were given a task with too few resources and a crappy open source database with an unrealistic deadline, and this is the result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfassett Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 I believe it was JohnH that pointed out not long ago that sales people are notorious for puffing up numbers. My first degree and my first career were in sales so I know for what he speaks. When you say the Drake salesperson indicated tons of ATX users have switched, you have to consider the source. Have there been a bunch? Probably. Are the indicated numbers overstated? Probably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jainen Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 >>users with smooth ATX 2012 experiences are far and few between<< Ah, but they DO exist! To me that says there is nothing inherently wrong with the program. The problem is getting it to work in all the different hardware, software, and office environments of users. Tech support and customer service are always very expensive, so that's where ATX looked to save money. Lacerte has had almost daily updates since January, and is even still updating 2011 too. But they answer their phones. They can afford to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chowdahead Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 I believe it was JohnH that pointed out not long ago that sales people are notorious for puffing up numbers. My first degree and my first career were in sales so I know for what he speaks. When you say the Drake salesperson indicated tons of ATX users have switched, you have to consider the source. Have there been a bunch? Probably. Are the indicated numbers overstated? Probably. I would think by "tons" he means a higher than normal amount for this time of year. I would agree that a much higher than normal amount of switches to Drake have more than likely occurred this late in the game. I am basing this on the many posts I have seen in the official board indicating a switch to Drake (and other programs). I never even mentioned to him that I am having problems with ATX. And he hasn't even bothered to follow-up my e-mail with a "Are you still interested" inquiry. So that either tells me that he is a horrendous salesperson, or he is already seeing high demand from ATX users so he is not following up on uncertain leads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chowdahead Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 >>users with smooth ATX 2012 experiences are far and few between<< Ah, but they DO exist! To me that says there is nothing inherently wrong with the program. The problem is getting it to work in all the different hardware, software, and office environments of users. Tech support and customer service are always very expensive, so that's where ATX looked to save money. Lacerte has had almost daily updates since January, and is even still updating 2011 too. But they answer their phones. They can afford to. They do exist. However, how much more standard can my hardware get? I have 2 Dell business PC that exceeds the minimum specs recommended by ATX. And I haven't had nearly the amount of serious issues others have had. The very nature of Windows is that it runs on different many different hardware configurations, unlike Macs. Besides, this is tax software. This isn't a first-person shooter with high-end graphics needing the latest performance and drivers. If I go down to Walmart and purchase a copy of TurboTax or TaxCut or TaxAct and install it on 100 different computers running a multitude of different hardware configurations and even versions of Windows, I bet it works accurately and stable on nearly every single one of them. That is the difference between a stable, tested, and well-coded program compared to what ATX released for 2012. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrichman333 Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 Think about it. Does anyone really feel that the ATX programers are so stupid to come out with a bad software program? I find it hard to believe that no one did any quality control or checks. I suspect something else is going on here. I suspect that ATX programers may have deliberately sabotage ATX by coming out with a lousy program. Why? Because based on what we have read here, many programers felt they were overworked and underpaid for their efforts. Under those circumstances, what else did they have to lose but give us a bad program. By sabotaging the ATX, maybe the programers hoped they would get the attention of upper management. Or maybe they had a more sinister motivation - come out with a bad program that would force some upper management staff (e.g., Jeff) to resign. This is just a theory, but it could explain what is going on right now. I might agree but it's not just ATX TRX it's also Taxworks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnH Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 I believe it was JohnH that pointed out not long ago that sales people are notorious for puffing up numbers. My first degree and my first career were in sales so I know for what he speaks. When you say the Drake salesperson indicated tons of ATX users have switched, you have to consider the source. Have there been a bunch? Probably. Are the indicated numbers overstated? Probably. Once a high-level VP in a company for which I was selling told me they needed accurate sales projections from their sale reps. They would use this info to plan their production schedule for the upcoming YEAR. I replied that the sales rep in me said "Great, my projections will help inspire me to sell more so I can meet my quota!" Then I told him "But the business person in me says any factory manager who actually SCHEDULES production based on the wishful thinking of his sales department needs to be fired before things get out of hand." We didn't get along very well after that conversation, but it wasn't a problem for me because he lost his job not long afterward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joelgilb Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 I believe it was JohnH that pointed out not long ago that sales people are notorious for puffing up numbers. My first degree and my first career were in sales so I know for what he speaks. When you say the Drake salesperson indicated tons of ATX users have switched, you have to consider the source. Have there been a bunch? Probably. Are the indicated numbers overstated? Probably. Purchased Drake on 02/15/2013 and at that time my sales rep at Drake indicated that about 500 ATX users had purchased Drake this year. My thought is that that tons means 2000*X. Sure quite a few more have since then, but who really knows how many. Know that JohnH is with me at Drake though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILLMAS Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 Did ATX programers deliberately sabotage ATX? I am going to have to say no, even companies like Microsoft have goof ups, don't forget about Windows ME, Vista and now Windows 8, I might of skipped a version in between that was flawed. I don't remember what version was it, but computer kids were helping Microsoft patch their mistakes. Something I do agree with most, is the software sucks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needmoreupdate Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 Release too quickly i would say. Not enough time for beta. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILLMAS Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 Release too quickly i would say. Not enough time for beta. We are the beta testers and they anticipate having it fixed after April 15, 2013. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee B Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 I am running with minor problems, just a bit slower than last year. So, I agree with jainen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack from Ohio Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 I want to hear from someone running a domain server and workstations that is NOT having any problems. I believe that person does not exist. 5 more hours on hold, 2 hours with the tech, and not a bit better. I did learn how to clean up the scat that the program produces when the program crashes with a return open. It corrupts information in the back-up file. Nice, huh.... Told the technician that I could assure him I will not need to call him next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RitaB Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 I would think by "tons" he means a higher than normal amount for this time of year. I would agree that a much higher than normal amount of switches to Drake have more than likely occurred this late in the game. I am basing this on the many posts I have seen in the official board indicating a switch to Drake (and other programs). I never even mentioned to him that I am having problems with ATX. And he hasn't even bothered to follow-up my e-mail with a "Are you still interested" inquiry. So that either tells me that he is a horrendous salesperson, or he is already seeing high demand from ATX users so he is not following up on uncertain leads. I am one of those people who bought Drake. Feb 7. Credit card was charged same day. That was efficient. Well, I decided I would just rather clean, take a nap, or eat while ATX was dinking around than struggle to figure out how to use Drake. As someone else said, "It's not my cup of tea." Ultimately, it worked out cause I ordered a computer Jan 30, which got here Feb 19, so now I can roll my chair back and forth between two computers during dinking around periods. And, there is less crashing on the new computer, so yay. Anyhow, Drake got their CD back on Feb 14, and I still don't have a credit on my card on Feb 25. So, it's all relative. That's what I'm taking away from this. And, I spoke too soon cause the program just crashed on Super-Duper Computer. Sigh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bart Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 I want to hear from someone running a domain server and workstations that is NOT having any problems. I believe that person does not exist. 5 more hours on hold, 2 hours with the tech, and not a bit better. I did learn how to clean up the scat that the program produces when the program crashes with a return open. It corrupts information in the back-up file. Nice, huh.... Told the technician that I could assure him I will not need to call him next year. What does "domain server" mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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