NT Sort Of

[mcb39]

Are a lot of things more complicated this year? Are clients more demanding? Are there less hours in the day and less days in the weeks? Or, am I just getting too old to be doing this?

P.S. What happened to Jainen....I miss him, because if nobody else will set us straight, he will.

P.P.S. Thanks to all the rest of you for wonderful and awesome support. Without you, I could not make it. The isolation of working alone in a home office would be impossible without the help of each and every one of you who answers questions no matter how trivial or unimportant they might seem to be. Nobody could possibly have greater coworkers or colleagues than we have right here. :dunno:

[BulldogTom]

Yes, it is more complicated this year.

Yes, the clients are more demanding.

Jainen is working hard on his taxes and does not have time to post as much. Send him a private message through this board and let him know you miss him. You can sweet talk him into posting at least once or twice a week if you are nice.

Tom

Lodi, CA

[Catherine]

Yes, it is more complicated this year.

<snip>

Tom

Lodi, CA

It's also more compressed this year. All those late 1099's from investment houses delayed my early birds significantly. So the "lull" (relatively speaking) between the early birds and the later-comers was about an hour and a half this year. Last year it was about three days; I got a lot of crap cleared away to make room for smoother operations on the second onslaught. Not this year; it's pile on stack on heap. It'll be fun to excavate starting 16 April.

Catherine

[TAXBILLY]

Jainen may be staying away for other reasons. He is very active on the Quickfinder and Fairmark boards.

taxbilly

[Lion EA]

Yes to everything. I have about the same amount of clients, but they're more complex this year. Clients say their taxes are simpler this year because their investments lost money, but they have more complex situations now with sales and exchanges and sales they think are losses but had depreciation reducing their basis or capital gain dividends or.... And, since most of mine do have investments, the extended deadlines for brokerages to mail combined 1099s and annual statements until 17 February and for Merrill Lynch and some other financial institutions to 3 March means I have less than six weeks to do the work I used to do in 2 1/2 months! I'm exhausted and panicking. I have what used to be an LLC/partnership that is now an S-corp (can't pro forma all those assets!) and due Monday that I'm trying to get off my desk so I can try to move some of the personal returns off their stacks and piles and heaps and onto my desk.

Thank goodness for all of you virtual colleagues who know and understand what's up this time of year and who can set me on the right path for research or preparation during my sleep-deprived times. I read ALL the posts. Thank you, everyone, for contributing questions and answers and moral support and humor.

[taxbrewster]

I agree. Things are a little different. Here in Michigan, things are tough and people more then ever are looking for breaks and shopping prices.

They want it done quick and cheap with much more information, we can't afford to lose clients.

But I am thankful for this board, there is no doubt about that.

[Lion EA]

And everyone seems sure that their paper losses mean big refunds this year. I need to learn how to explain why paper losses don't change their taxes, especially when the losses are in their IRA.

[RitaB]

I know! One guy really rubbed me the wrong way cause he let it slip that he had asked the lady at HRB if he could deduct his losses. (I had ALREADY talked to him for 20 minutes on the phone about it.) HRB gal said yes, up to $3000 a year. Which is technically correct, IF HE HAD A LOSS.

I was already mad, cause he wasn't willing to believe what I had told him, so I asked him, "OK, you weren't exactly bustin a move to get in here and tell me about your GAINS for the the past three years. Why not? Do I need to amend all those returns?"

"Well, I didn't sell anything." Pause. Look of enlightenment comes over his expression.

There will be another, different, look when I increase his fee this year by $50 for having the nerve to double check with HRB. I now know that he's only with me because I charge less than HRB. I am so tired a bending over backwards to help people who are not loyal to me. HRB gal didn't ask the right questions, and I'm sure she has been trained NOT TO, so the TP comes in to get the return done.

[Lion EA]

I'm going to use that one: $50 for checking with HRB, $75 for listening to your barber, mechanic, or neighbor's son.

[JohnH]

How much for asking the SAME #*^%* QUESTION they've asked, every year, for the past 10 years?

"Why can't I write off my gas receipts AND my mileage?"

"Why can't I claim my car as an office since I work out of it all the time?"

"Why do I have to keep a mileage log? My brother in law doesn't keep one."

Sometimes it's tempting to adopt the billing practices of Thernardier, the innkeeper in Les Miserables:

"Charge 'em for the lice

Extra for the mice

Two percent for looking in the mirror twice

Here a little slice

There a little cut

Three percent for sleeping with the window shut"

[RitaB]

How much for asking the SAME #*^%* QUESTION they've asked, every year, for the past 10 years?

Priceless.

I actually did tell one woman who wanted me to remind her what business expenses were deductible: "all of them"

[joans]

It is busy this year, but what makes it worse is when you have a full schedule, then 3-4 people just walk in and drop off their organizers and paperwork and say "it's the same as last year and can you have them done in a week?" I almost want to laugh in their face and say, Sure, do you want to call all these people and tell them that your return is more important than theirs? But I bite my tongue and say "Give us two weeks and it should be done" It is just too busy right now and the returns are more complicated this year. More goofy situations that we haven't had before. Well, have a good rest of the year and remember to stop and take a breath once in a while. Life is too short and after all it is just taxes. They will be here next year too

Sara

[TAXBILLY]

My cutoff date for drop offs and mail ins is this Friday. Any after that date may or may not be done by April 15th. If not acceptable to the client then they have the option of going somewhere else. I am tired of "squeezing in" the same people every year that could have dropped off earlier but procrastinated. It is not my problem. Guess I'm getting too old for this. I already have a full slate of appointments through March 31st. I make April appointments for new clients only.

taxbilly

[David1980]

I make April appointments for new clients only.

You know, it's rules like that which are why I switch between Geico and Progressive every 6 months + few days. They give me a "new customer" discount. Where as if I stay with them, I pay more. I guess it works since big companies do it.

[kcjenkins]

David, I think you misunderstood Taxbilly. He does not 'do' those new clients in April, I bet, but merely makes appointments so that he can set up their extensions. Something you can usually do automatically for priors.

[TAXBILLY]

KC is correct. Sorry I didn't express myself clearly. I need to meet with new clients to determine a possible estimated tax to be paid with the extension. It usually only takes a few minutes but I don't want the new client to end up with unnecessary penalties. I do the same for my regular clients who drop off or mail in their stuff but I don't usually need to meet with them since I'm familiar with their situation and a quick phone call may or may not be needed.

taxbilly

[David1980]

David, I think you misunderstood Taxbilly. He does not 'do' those new clients in April, I bet, but merely makes appointments so that he can set up their extensions. Something you can usually do automatically for priors.

Sorry for the misunderstanding, that does make sense.

[jainen]

>>What happened to Jainen....I miss him, because if nobody else will set us straight, he will.<<

No, I won't. I appreciate your kind comment, but you will need to rely on my older posts as Eli does in his 3/15 thread, "Amending from HoH to MFJ." They cover a lot of topics and as you suggest are not always in agreement with the overall tone of this forum.

[Slippery Pencil]

increase his fee this year by $50 for having the nerve to double check with HRB.

I hope you're not charging him just for getting a second opinion, but for getting that opinion from HRB, where there was a high probability he would talk to someone who was incompetent and would give him wrong advice.

[RitaB]

I know! One guy really rubbed me the wrong way cause he let it slip that he had asked the lady at HRB if he could deduct his losses. (I had ALREADY talked to him for 20 minutes on the phone about it.) HRB gal said yes, up to $3000 a year. Which is technically correct, IF HE HAD A LOSS.

I was already mad, cause he wasn't willing to believe what I had told him, so I asked him, "OK, you weren't exactly bustin a move to get in here and tell me about your GAINS for the the past three years. Why not? Do I need to amend all those returns?"

"Well, I didn't sell anything." Pause. Look of enlightenment comes over his expression.

There will be another, different, look when I increase his fee this year by $50 for having the nerve to double check with HRB. I now know that he's only with me because I charge less than HRB. I am so tired a bending over backwards to help people who are not loyal to me. HRB gal didn't ask the right questions, and I'm sure she has been trained NOT TO, so the TP comes in to get the return done.

The guy got the answer he wanted from HRB, but came to me, I guess hoping I would change my mind about what to do with his portfolio loss. I figured he also got a quote from HRB, which was higher than my fee, or he would have let them do the return.

There IS more to it than that, though. These people came to me three years ago after they screwed up their own return, doing it themselves. Last year, when I mentioned car sales tax deduction, they said they would be able to do that 2009, cause they bought car in January 2009. After I finished the 2008 return (about a week later), and told 'em it was ready, they realized they bought the car Dec 2008. I re-did the return, free of charge, and they did not even thank me for doing that, let alone apologize for the extra work.

I don't want these people now.

BTW, it WOULD irritate me if a client got a second opinion (from any preparer) about a question that I answered quickly and decisively, devoting more than adequate time explaining the issue. It's not like I wasn't sure, had to research, hem hawed around, etc. And, I probably would go up on my fee.

Yeah, pride goes before a fall, so I may be on the way down...

[Margaret CPA in OH]

RCooper, I feel the same way about second opinions when I have done my supported research. I fired a long time client in January because, when finishing up the year end details for the C corp, they emailed something about business trips, 42 in fact, to another municipality for weekly meetings. Three years earlier they said they no longer did any work there.

When I said that they would have to refigure a salary allocation and remit withholdings for this employee/shareholder, they asked why. I sent a link to the code and regs for that muni. They then "consulted" the tax department of the consulting firm with which they had the contract. The consulting firm said they never bother with keeping track of that as it's too much work. So this client said to just forget about the tax and filing to me even acknowledging that the cite I provided clearly stated the requirement. Since I felt I was being asked to ignore what I knew and sign an inaccurate return, I withdrew from the engagement.

It was a bit painful as they mostly were good clients and always paid timely! But I feel better about my liability insurance.

[Mel in Hawaii]

Amazing that you get upset at someone getting a second oppinion, but people advocate for that all the time. Getting a second oppinion from a Doctor comes to mind. Everyone is not an expert, and how are people to know that you are ALWAYS right? I know it hurts the pride on your part, but people are constantly being told to do that.

Yes, I agree that HRB probably charge more so they came back to you, but something Greg Jackson once said comes to mind. "If you can't give it away, sell it!" His story was about an item that a furniture seller was trying to sell that they kept marking down and marking down and no one would buy it. Finally they jacked the price up really high and he could have sold it many times over. If your price is lower, somewhere back in the back of their brains they are going to questions themselves as to WHY it is lower. You may have the best resources behind you, do way more training than the HRB guys get, but still they will wonder as they don't KNOW that. To them the franchise probably adds a bit of unquantifiable value/quality that it probably doesn't deserve.

Ok, I am off to grab a cinnamon roll that I just baked before they get cold... Ummm.. Homemade from scratch cinnamon rolls early in the morning.

[Margaret CPA in OH]

For my part, it was not the second opinion issue. I don't mind that at all because I don't know everything and would certainly be willing to learn from others. That's one reason to be a part of this board. The issue in this situation is that I specifically provided the information to the client of the proper treatment. The client then said, because the tax department of the consulting firm said they considered proper handling of the issue too much trouble, to ignore what I knew and to file inaccurate returns. I would not do that.

On more than one occasion I have actually paid another CPA for consultation (a second opinion) about an issue. Twice I have paid a tax attorney to review trust returns (a second opinion). It isn't the second opinion that bothers me. As I wrote, it's a second opinion when I have done the research to support the position and, in the pertinent case, then been told to ignore the law. My pride was unhurt (how could you know whether it was or not?) as were my ethics. Or were you addressing the OP?

I do hope you enjoyed your cinnamon roll.

[RitaB]

Amazing that you get upset at someone getting a second oppinion, but people advocate for that all the time. Getting a second oppinion from a Doctor comes to mind. Everyone is not an expert, and how are people to know that you are ALWAYS right? I know it hurts the pride on your part, but people are constantly being told to do that.

Doctor A sees a torn ligament on an MRI and says, "You have a torn ligament." You go to Doctor B (or call him) and say, "My knee really hurts." Doctor B says, "You have arthritis." You go back to Doctor A and ask him, "How come this is not arthritis? Another doctor said it was arthritis." I suspect Doctor A would be a little offended. After all, he had all the facts, ran the appropriate tests, and made the diagnosis using all the facts. Not like he flipped a coin. Doctor B didn't do any tests, but you liked what he said better. OK, go to Doctor B for treatment, then, and get Doctor B to provide you with some assurances of some kind. You know, run a second MRI or something.

"Yes, I agree that HRB probably charge more so they came back to you, but something Greg Jackson once said comes to mind. 'If you can't give it away, sell it!'"

My increased fee should help with that.

I can smell that cinnamon roll from here. MMMM...

[Lion EA]

If the software doesn't work out, will you airfreight cinnamon rolls to CT during tax season? I think a standing shipment to arrive every Monday morning while I make my cup of tea.