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No. I am saying that if form 8938 is required... we must attach it to 1040. Failing to do so, our filing is not complete and talking about liabilities... might come in play.

I agree and report it, claiming the exemption. A client signs a lot of paperwork during their closing and might not know they received Form 1099-S in their packet, or it might be mailed to their old address. It takes almost no time to report it and exclude it; but it takes a lot of time to answer the IRS letter, calm your client, and even figure out what happened in the past.

I think that Margaret is correct - part of the act allowed people who had already taken their RMD until August 31 to recontribute their RMD back to the same plan or roll it over into another plan. I think this was covered in Notice 2020-51 but I don't see offhand the specifics for how to show it on the return.

I'd like no extensions forms, automatic extensions like FBAR. Maybe a 15 July payment deadline or no penalties/interest only to 15 October or some other reduction of P&I later than 15 April. I hate breaking my stride to stop to prepare/e-file extensions.

Lion, you gotta know when to hold 'em and know when to tell them, sorry. I have had a few that I've declined because, over my head and could never charge enough to get up to date on some esoteric tax issue I might never see again. I think you may breathe a little easier now, too.

Knowing I'm reluctant to file the FinCEN form, I skimmed through their 2019 return, just looking at the forms, to see if I could meet the price they wanted to pay. No way! He earns over $400,000, so things like NII and phaseout of QBID come into play, CT and NY returns, FL condo rental w/missing depreciation schedule, FIVE partnerships such as oil & gas/passive loss carryovers and restaurants in NJ, huge mortgage interest so may be some refinances with non-buy/build/renovate uses, many interest/dividend accounts plus stocks, and lots of other forms/schedules. And, she'll start drawing her UK "some strange kind of pension" next year. I gave her my price range, which is well over what they want to pay, and told her I will not file the FinCEN, mostly because it's feeling like these would be problem clients after all her emails. She was nice enough to call me this morning to thank me for looking over their returns and is picking up her 2019 folder shortly. Thank you, everyone, for your thoughts and experiences with FBAR.

Agree with those above. 5 minutes of your time in reporting it can save many headaches of having to deal with the IRS down the road.

I have had many clients tell me they did not receive a 1099S but when I ask for the closing packet, lo and behold! there is the 1099S. I had an interesting one this week where the homeowner was deceased, and the mother was the sole heir (no will.) The 1099s was made out to mom, sole heir of son's estate and did not show any tax identification number! I had to call the title company to see whose tax id they actually reported this in - mom or the estate.

I have always reported it then claimed the exemption to ensure that my client doesn't get a letter, which I would have discuss with the client and respond to the letter.

You have to report it if they received a 1099S, but code it on the Sch D to claim the exemption.

Given all we are dealing with this tax season, I think you have to raise fees to justify all the extra time spent on each return. This tax season will be unlike any other.

Boy, we have we have a lot of opinions about this question, if all else fails go to the IRS FAQ page "Q A5. Does someone who died qualify for the payment? Why did the IRS send payments to deceased individuals? (updated November 10, 2020) A5. No, a payment made to someone who died before receiving the payment should be returned to the IRS by following the instructions in Topic I: Returning the Economic Impact Payment. Joint filers with a deceased spouse: For payments made to joint filers with a deceased spouse who died before receiving the payment, return the decedent’s portion of the payment. This amount will be $1,200 unless your adjusted gross income exceeded $150,000" "Will a deceased individual receive the payment? (added January 5, 2021) A payment won’t be issued to someone who has died before January 1, 2020. If you filed a joint return in 2019 and your spouse died before January 1, 2020, you won’t receive a $600 payment for your deceased spouse, but you’ll still be issued up to $600 for you and $600 for any qualifying children, if all other eligibility criteria are met. Regarding eligible individuals who died in 2020, the Recovery Rebate Credit may be claimed on line 30 of their 2020 tax return. Please refer to the instructions for the 2020 Form 1040 for more information."

When I skimmed over your post, I first thought $400 was what they wanted to pay. But then I thought, "sounds like $400 should be a reasonable fee for looking over that return (before declining)".

You may be in a situation where the taxpayer can meet Head of Household requirements but not dependent requirements. Meeting the 50 % support requirements may be a tough hurdle. You don't say anything about Mom's income and what it pays for.

As a general rule I rarely raise my fees but this year is going to have to be different. All this folderol about the EIP, the second EIP and, of course, the clients don't have the reporting forms and have NO CLUE about the amounts received. This along with the AGAIN delayed filing deadline (like last year) and these sticky Covid restrictions. Yes the fees got to go UP.

Once she wrote "some strange kind of pension" I was pulling away!

I have a client who has for many years been a general partnership with two partners filing a Form 1065 for rental real estate activity. This year, without consulting me, they decided to form a limited liability company and filed all the appropriate paperwork with the Kentucky Secretary of State. The entity is still be taxed as a partnership so technically nothing changed from a tax perspective except the name which went from "BW Associates" to "B&W, LLC." As I understand it, I would simply have needed to check the "name change" box on the 2020 return and continue on my merry way. Problem is, however, that they applied for and received a new Federal ID number for the LLC. Because of this, do I need to file a part year return for BW Associates and a part year return for B&W LLC, or can I continue using the old EIN and try to explain to the IRS should they ever question why a return was never filed under the new number issued to the LLC? To further complicate matters, they never completed the registration process with the state of Kentucky and as a result have no ID number for filing the state return for the LLC. Why do people do things without asking questions first?!? Ugh.

Cbslee, I was going to post the same. Thanks. Death was not addressed in the first stimulus payment law, but it was for the second. The Q&A 5 you posted relates to the first payment, and the IRS specified returning it if the taxpayer died before receiving the payment. The second Q&A is relates to the second payment, and repeats what Congress specified.

It's a tax free repayment. From what I've read and what my software provider has said to do is claim you did an IRA rollover eliminating the distribution. Enter the amount as rolled over that they repaid. The way they distribute IRA rollovers to the client and then they forward it to the custodian - it's common to have a 1099-R which was actually rolled into another IRA.

Congress ruled that dead people qualify for the stimulus.

I think it has to do with being alive for any amount of time during 2020, then still qualifying for 2020 credit. Does anyone have anything specific re DOD after 31 December 2019?

I'm so sorry. It's the Virginia Employment Commission. I can't see anything on the website that would allow anyone to access the 1099 yet.

ProSeries also allows filing of the FinCen from within the program, although it isn't very intuitive for me to get to the form. But I agree that if the foreign assets are enough to trigger the 8938 you might as well go ahead with the FinCen form. I do wish the information carried from one form to the other though. That would make it a piece of cake.

I do lots of FBARs, but 95% of my clients are expats abroad or foreign nationals in the US. And most of my clients have the Form 8938 filing requirement so I have all the information already. I give them the option of self-preparing or preparing them for them for a fee. Other software providers allow you to prepare the forms within their software (Drake and CCH Axcess). Sadly ATX does not. But I just use the PDF from the BSA website and submit them directly after getting the 114a signed.

The only problem I have with Form 114 is the apparent incompatibility of BSA's site with Nuance PDF Pro; I must revert to Adobe Reader to complete the return online and so I keep that application on a computer separate from my main ones -- but only because Adobe insinuates itself into other applications to become the default PDF reader. How is inputting Form 114 online substantially different from preparing and e-filing other tax forms? My clients pay me for the time it takes me to do that, are sent a copy of the form to review and must return a signed & dated copy of Form 114a. The BSA site allows me to save and print a copy of the form, and sends two acknowledgements of e-filing, one at once and the other later. Even better, no extra form is required to request an extension of time to file past April 15. I may have been lucky to have begun my career in the international tax department of a firm which trained me to monkey around with lots of different forms, but don't law changes throw that at us every year? Form 114 is simpler than 8938 and 2555 and 1116, for instance, and providing it helps keep clients who've posted overseas or have non-US accounts from before. I regret only that the demise of TDF 90-22.1 probably cost my ol' hometown some nice jobs -- all too scarce in the wake of globalization.

We need to be careful because if you prepare a tax return requiring form 8938, you must do include it. In that case we might as well do FinCEN and FBAR.

On a positive note, you get to bill them for two part-year returns, which should end up being about 3x your normal bill. If you're using ATX, you'll want to do a short year rollover in the 2020 software, after you've done the old partnership final short year. You do this on the month/quarter tab of the 2020 rollover screen. This will rollover all of your assets with the proper beginning accumulated depreciation, and it will calculate the correct short year depreciation for the new LLC's first short year. Make sure you enter fiscal year dates in the old 1065. Now here's where you get to be a hero. There will be late filing fees for the old 1065, but you can get them automatically removed either under first time forgiveness or by using this: Partnership Late Filing Penalty Relief Please remove the penalty for late filing of a partnership return under Rev. Proc. 84-35 and code section 6698(a). The partnership is a domestic partnership with 10 or fewer partners, each partner is a natural person or an estate, each partner’s share of each partnership item is the same as such partner’s share of every other item, the partnership has not elected to be subject to the consolidated audit procedures under IRC 6221 through IRC 6233, and all partners reported their share of all pass through items on timely filed individual returns.

I do a couple but they are relatively straightforward expats (one from Canada, and one from Jamaica) who provide all the information and i just enter it on the form for them. If it was anything other than bank accounts, I am not interested in spending that much time on something I will do that seldom.

On top of all those unpleasantries for you, isn't there an additional KY filing requirement and fees (of course) for LLC's? I used to have a dog trainer that was an LLC and she was surprised about the additional filing. I don't know if p'ships are different. With all her activities in so many taxing jurisdictions in KY and OH, I finally 'invited' her to find another preparer more familiar with KY. She was really nice but I could never charge enough to cover all the time on her taxes. Make sure you charge enough to cover all the time you will need to address this mess. Clients need to understand the consequences of their actions. We keep trying to drill into them to ask first but it doesn't always sink in.

I'm adding a line item for The CARES Act and another line for the Consolidated Appropriations Act. How much I put on those lines will depend on how much time I spend on that client's questions, issues, etc., and whether or not they asked questions BEFORE they did things like take money out of their IRA. Yes, this is my way of increasing my total fee for almost every client.

That's why I state to call with questions. The first and only one I did was with a German client sitting with me. I typed in the information for him but it was his account and he had all the numbers. He was about 80 and not so great on the computer at the time. All the others now are all quite computer literate and are all professors of something. They can manage. Most of my other clients, yeah, could not, but they also do not have foreign accounts so no worries.

I hear you! I held off raising fees until 3 years ago then instituted a $25 CTC/AOC/EITC fee just to answer all those cursed 8867 questions about clients that I KNOW! And, of course, it only applied to those getting those credits. Then last year added a $25 technology fee as I had to upgrade to Win 10 and then a new scanner compatible with Win 10. I recovered all those costs and omitted it this year. As I bill by time, I think any issues that arise with the EIP stuff, will sort themselves out.

I don't think most of my clients would be capable of filing an FBAR. If I didn't have notes on how to do it, I'd be lost every year. The system is way too complicated, unclear and doesn't always work as you would think.

Feel free and to edit, too. I probably got the gist from AICPA and instructions. Anyway, it has worked and my clients that need to do this now also even let me know that they have filed. I use the Questionnaire in ATX and one section is Foreign Reporting. I require a completed questionnaire to prepare returns so the onus is on the client. If those questions are answered in the affirmative and they don't let me know they've filed, I ask and remind them of the requirements. Somehow I've managed to gain several German clients (citizens now, green cards, other) and US expats in Australia (now dual citizens) so try to keep on top of this.

ATX never provides the 1040-ES until late march or so. As to my recollection. But then again my memory is like memorex. OLD.

Thorough explanation, Margaret. I may steal this.

In my annual cover letter with the engagement letter, I include a full paragraph U.S. citizens and residents have an obligation to disclose a financial interest in any foreign bank accounts. Title 31, Section 103.24 of the Code of Federal Regulations (“CFR”), 31 CFT 103.24, applies to any person or entity subject to the jurisdiction of the U.S., having a financial interest in, or signature authority over, a bank, securities or other financial account having a value exceeding $10,000 (at any time) in a foreign country. The Foreign Bank Account Reporting (FBAR) is now done with FinCEN Report 114, Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts and is only available online through the Bank Secrecy Act E-Filing website, (http://bsaefiling.fincen.treas.gov/main.html). Please see this website for full details. NOTE: This is now due April 15. There are substantial civil and criminal penalties prescribed for failure to file. The civil penalty can be as much as $10,000, regardless of whether the violation is willful. Criminal penalties are much more severe. Please consider the dollar value of any foreign accounts carefully. Please call with questions. I do not and will not prepare myself. All the information the client needs is, I think, shown here. It's enough for me to manage the usual things!

Agree. Give it a try. It was your clients (unpaid) preparer who had an illness/death in the family that didn't e-file a completed return plus your client's advanced age/any health issues/any cognitive issues preventing your client from checking on e-filing.

Yeah, I heard the scream of Liability as soon as I received her email. I have about three clients that I remind and check up on their FBAR requirements, but all file themselves. In fact, one decided that their Singapore bank account wasn't needed with their US TDBank account with online bill paying and a credit card, so she closed it years ago and filed her last FBAR the following year. I have enough to do to keep up with the IRS/Congress enacting tax laws. And, I do take CE in international issues, previously scheduled a webinar for next week re FBARS because I do have to advise my clients. Thank you, everyone, for sharing your thoughts. I'm leaning toward declining this client.

There really isn't any liability... until there is.

Not touching the FBAR and do as Lynn and John described above.

I think it's worth trying to abate. Cancer and subsequent death of a spouse could, I think, put just about everything else on the back burner. Worst case is denial and penalty maybe covered by that state deduction not previously taken.

Did you try the solution I posted on Friday? I did on a client and it did exactly what you are asking to do. Maybe you, too, could try this. Could it trigger an audit? Who knows for sure but it seems obvious to me that this is the solution desired by IRS and implemented by the software.

I never touch FBAR. Too much liability at stake. I document that I advised them of the filing requirement & penalties and leave it at that. If someone tried to insist that I file it, I would view that as a deal breaker.

When the TDF form was filed It was a mixed bag. That changed when the FBAR filing is allowed only on the FINCEN site . I provide general FBAR filing requirements but do not want the liability of doing so. My 3 individual clients with foreign assets all file their own FBAR and provide a copy to me. The FBAR for a US trust is filed by the trustee, who also provides a copy to me.

$10.4 billion in fraud in California.