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Ain't that the truth! Not so much here, but on other boards I've seen people hold themselves out to be "tax professionals" when they are nothing more than a glorified keypunch operator. Software is a great tool and there are times when it catches my mistakes, but then again, there are other times when it gives an answer that I know if not right. Generally it's because I didn't click on a box or other. If someone doesn't have a good idea of what the result should be, they don't know to look at what has to be checked. I think those of us who "could" do a return with calculator and pencil are going the way of dinasours!

I stopped in the middle of reading this thread to send an email to a client telling them that I would not be able to do their return this year. Thank you for the timely reminder that some people are just not a good fit and the sooner we part ways the better for both of us!

Tax software is no substitute for tax knowledge. You can replace the words "tax" with any profession.

Catherine. I hope I am getting better (more forceful?) at catching issues up front, such as those who expect the software to teach them accounting/payroll processing, rather than use the software as a tool. My self explanation is computers have become appliances to many, expected to do it all "for" the user. Last century, all who used computers/software were already experts, now a growing majority believe the ads stating anyone can Q by using B software. I find myself working on perfecting a stock reply, that software is a tool to help someone do something they can already do without said software. If there is no existing training/experience to rely on, then hiring out is the best bet - maybe a small local person/firm who is willing to patiently answer questions (not for free) if the person wants to learn the process. I also mention all business owners should have at least a modest idea of the process, so they can spot trends/issues, but they should defer to the people they pay for advice (and their E&O coverage!). There are endless options to gain knowledge, free and paid, in person and remote, so lack of desire to gain knowledge is a red flag.

That is the issue. Some think a computer and software makes them qualified, prevents errors, etc. Those are the likely to think that is all a preparer does too. While I am likely knowledgeable enough to do our corp return, I am wise/old/lazy/busy enough not to. I know they do have an input person. What we pay for is their supervisor who reviews the return, makes sure staff is trained, and spends time answering my questions/concerns. It is a good working relationship. I just got a thank you message for showing PTET as a separate line item... after having a professional back and forth on a few items I wanted to be clear on.

As we have chatted about before, it can be freeing, and many will say necessary, to fire a few clients each year/season. In my case, I don't really have to prepare, I can just issue a refund, and send a "thank you for past usage, make sure to print needed records" type of message. Happened again today. Someone asked a relatively simple question, with the proper answer being no. The now former customer did not like the answer (the item was something it is not proper to do), so the refund was initiated. For me, most fire themselves, such as making the "threat" along the lines of do what I want or I will find other software/post negative reviews, etc. These are becoming sadly routine as attempted blackmail seems to be some sort of way people think they can get what they want. The other usual is someone asking me (interestingly, the person who wrote the software) for help, then claiming my suggestion is wrong, unable to be done, etc. Today's example was a customer who believed their "IT" person (or was just being dishonest about having an "IT" person), sent a nasty reply, then sent another rely that the software was not the issue as proved by installing in a different location (it was a firewall issue on their end, not broken software on my part). As I get ready to try to train my eventual replacement, I have been making notes of things to help them deal with customers. One of them is to never assume the customer is telling the truth. This is a huge change from 30 years ago when I started... It simply is not wise to take all information at face value. I actually often ask for "proof", such as a screen capture, and a fair amount of the time the customer was wrong, mistaken, or just untruthful. So for here, I wonder if you are ready to fire at all times, meaning ready to give working papers or copies on short notice, and send them to the next person/firm? I ask, because I know we chatted here, years ago, about even terrible customers having money to "get" (meaning to get/earn for services), and sometimes, they have more to spend than easy customers. In my case, I have one price, so I cannot charge more for tough customers... Plus, as I get older, and relatively stable financially, I have little need to deal with certain things. (Maybe I am getting to be more Mr. Wilson than Dennis!)

I remember when I was taking Accounting Classes in college waiting and waiting until the cost of a Texas Instrument handheld calculator finally dropped to to $125 so that I could finally afford to buy one:)

Have you ever had a client say "All you have to do is put the numbers in the computer!" I haven't had that happen in a long time as more people are realizing that tax returns are more difficult than they think. They seem to have begun to realize how we (think, research and agonize) over their returns. If we aren't doing those things, we should not be calling ourselves Professionals. Just the fact of reading and contributing to boards like this one (which is excellent, by the way) proves that we are not letting the software do the work.

While I am not out in the wild, I rarely come across anyone who can handle even one payroll (power outage, computer failure, etc.) with any sort of writing instrument, paper, and cash or checks. I still suggest people have 15T and their state pub in their top drawer, but I doubt if any do. Same for paper checks on hand, and/or access to at least a few hundred dollars per employee to buy a day or two delay. Just an age thing, but I was not allowed a calculator in class until my feeble attempt at conforming in college. Still cannot find the Dr or Cr buttons on a calculator <smile>, or the "any" key. As I embark on trying to pass on what I know, I ever so strongly try to remind/inspire the person to learn the process, not so much the tool, as understanding the process is the gold, anyone can bang on a keyboard to use the tool.

The password does expire every 90 days, but if you log in once a year to submit W-2s, then you can change it only that once and done. I logged in this evening, changed my password, prepared and submitted my W-2, and saved/printed the pdf. No problems whatsoever, and I used Firefox browser.

From the IRS' site; guidance for this year.

Yes - and as a result, I have rarely had to fire on the spot. As time goes on I am refusing potential problem clients upon their first inquiry. With existing clients, if I start to see signs of trouble creeping in, I recommend that they seek other help because it seems they need more assistance than I have time properly to provide. The last client I fired I finished his return (and got paid, not nearly what it was worth) and then sent a letter stating I would not be able to help him going forward. Thought for sure with him I was going to have to tell him to leave, but knowing I was ready to say it came through enough in our interactions that we were able to finish that one last year. He got a lot more slack than others, since doing his return was a favor to his late mother. Thanks for the reminder, as well as for confirming the impression that people are not telling the truth as much any more. On the tax end, I don't know if they're just incompetent financially, confused by confusing rules, overwhelmed with general busy-ness, or just lying. But I definitely see it more and more.

Some of Mrs. Kravitz' habits have leaked in as well... Not so much being a busy body, but watching what goes on, or more specifically, having visible working cameras so the baddies move along. We get asked, from time to time, if we caught something. One of our cams records every thing entering our cul-de-sac. Helped catch someone who as checking for unlocked vehicles and homes. The person who was caught skipped by our place and vehicles, looking straight at the cameras... but did not realize how wide the field of view is. Just got four new ones today, to replace some outdated ones. They not only are clear enough to get a real face image and license plate image night or day, they are supposed to pan with the moving subject.

And, that is an age reference that I can identify with.

Key filing season dates There are several important dates taxpayers should keep in mind for this year's filing season: January 13: IRS Free File opens January 17: Due date for tax year 2022 fourth quarter estimated tax payment. January 23: IRS begins 2023 tax season and starts accepting and processing individual 2022 tax returns. January 27: Earned Income Tax Credit Awareness Day to raise awareness of valuable tax credits available to many people – including the option to use prior-year income to qualify. April 18: National due date to file a 2022 tax return or request an extension and pay tax owed due to the Emancipation Day holiday in Washington, D.C. October 16: Due date to file for those requesting an extension on their 2022 tax returns.

When I upgraded from WIn2016 to Win2019, I copied all backup files of ATX and Payroll from 2013 to the new server. If you have a need to use Payroll from 2015 onwards, you will need to install the software, apply license keys for each year and restore from backup for each year. I also have PDF copies of all 1099's, W2s and Qtrly reports so no issues.

As a former and current church treasurer who also relies on Church and Clergy Tax Guide: 1. Yes, as the clergy are performing pastoral duties. If paid from family or funeral home, Schedule C. If paid from the church, the budget line item may be different from the salary line, but still taxable income included on W-2. 2. If the others (non-pastors) are employees of the church and paid through the church, yes, part of payroll. Again, may be a different account but still employee pay. Part of the pushback may be coming from 'charitable contributions' made to the church to be passed through to these folks. This can and does happen. Employees getting paid from employer for doing their job have taxable income.

I wouldn't go as far as keeping the payroll software back that many years. However I would keep the following for each client/year: 1. Payroll Check History Detail 2. Quarterly Payroll Reports 3. Annual payroll reports My past experience trying to keep that many years of ATX Software up and running was definitely an exercise in frustration! However, I currently have 5 years of Drake currently up and running with zero problems

Yes. ATX is a database and the server must have the ATX software installed to make the database available to other users (AFAIK). And the other users will might need to point to the new database if the location is not identical.

That is so cool. I just this week purchased two on Amazon for $9.

Another looks to be on their way. Livid that I have no means to access their state's records and get their UI rate "for" them, since that is what they thought they were paying me for, to be their payroll service and answer all possible payroll questions for them. (I license payroll software for self use.) Interestingly, they are not a new customer. I wonder how they forgot they setup their own UI rate at the beginning of the last year? Maybe they are having a bad day, we will see. Mine started not so good, one of our kids called early to say his vehicle was stolen overnight. Thankfully, he lives across the street from his school, and we can get him our spare car in a day or two. I try to let them fire themselves, like the one starting off on the wrong foot this morning. I have replied twice, with the pertinent information, including a link they can use to log in and get their rate. Their next reply, if any, will determine their status.

And since I have not started anything, I don't have any problems (yet). I just want to make sure I have everything lined up correctly before I get started. Thanks

I think you are. When I have replaced computers (not servers) in my practice over the years I have had to install the software for each year onto the new machine. It makes sense to me that the programs need to be installed and the installation keys need to be entered for each year. I am not a techie type person, so I could be wrong. Are you copying any other software onto your server without having to re-install? Is it only ATX that you are having this problem with? Tom Longview, TX

Yes, I've referred him to his Fiduciary for the Plan specifics and to verify with the Fiduciary's tax department, not just his rep.

thank you for the clarification. I get the reasons, but it is fairly unworkable, for something many access only during January. No point in having a Pwd at all for that short of a time, better to rely on some sort of other method, SMS code (with a less often expiring PWD), token, etc. Just one person's opinion, and darn glad I do not have to handle their lost/forgotten PWD requests.

Pacun, I looked on the IRS website, clicked on the news tab and yes, the IRS has set the date to begin filing on 1/23/2023. Here is a link IRS sets January 23 as official start to 2023 tax filing season; more help available for taxpayers this year | Internal Revenue Service

January is my busiest month due to 4th Quarter and Year End Payroll Reports, so I don't have any more time to spend on this area. The objective of my posts was to point out that this is an area which is more complicated than it first appears, which is why I keep referring to the client's Plan Document and to the client's Fiduciary who has expert advice available.

In 30 years I only have personal knowledge of the IRS visiting a client unannounced once, about ten years ago. My client kept making their federal payroll tax deposits very late. It was kind of surprising since they only had 3 or 4 part time employees. According to my client, the IRS Agent didn't actually do much except to ask some payroll related questions which as I remember they didn't answer truthfully. This was a client who I fired.

Since the assets were held in trust at death of deceased beneficiary, there is no step up in basis upon his death. The beneficiary’s do not have any current legal ownership or rights of the trust assets; they are only entitled to distributions. Beneficiaries do have not basis in a trust; so there cannot be a step up on their death. Even if the house had been distributed out of the trust to beneficiaries, there would not be second step up as governed by the Uniformity of Basis Rule. There is a difference. The shares of stock represent legal ownership, the holder has a right to transfer. Beneficiary of a trust cannot transfer interest.

But the trigger for the 1099 is when payment is made. Correct?

Thank you, my friends here at the ATX Forum, for being such a wonderful group and such a wonderful resource for yet another year. May you all have a wonderful holiday season with family and friends, and a terrific year in 2023.