ATX Layoffs!

[Mainetaxman]

Bad News everyone!

I found out this week that most of the ATX sales and tech reps have been laid off! Now I know why I've been having so much trouble trying to reach someone at ATX. I've been calling off and on for a few days, but I either get cut-off or I'm on hold for a long time. I finally spoke to a rep who said he actually works at "TaxWise". I asked him why it's taking so long to get through, and he told me that the ATX people in Maine were "let go" in late December. I Goggled "ATX, layoffs" and came across an article in the Bangor Daily News (bangornews.com) on December 31st giving more details about the layoffs. It seems that TaxWise is now taking control of ATX and all the calls are going there. I just hope they don't mess up the service. I've been using MAX for several years and I hate to see anything happen to that product. Check out the article ----

Caribou ATX layoffs a 'shock' to workers

By Jen Lynds

Monday, December 31, 2007 - Bangor Daily News

CARIBOU, Maine — Representatives of the Maine Department of Labor will be in Caribou to meet with workers who learned last week they were being laid off by ATX, a tax software firm.

It was not clear over the weekend how many workers are affected by the layoffs.

State Rep. Peter Edgecomb of Caribou said Sunday that he learned of the layoffs from city officials late last week and had received e-mails from several former ATX employees.

"I think that, at this point, there are more questions than answers about what has happened," Edgecomb said. "I have been told that these employees went to a meeting thinking they were going to strategize about the upcoming tax season and then were told they were being laid off. ... This certainly was a shock to them, and it is a shock to the city."

State Labor Commissioner Laura Fortman said Friday that members of the department’s Rapid Response team would be in the city on Thursday, Jan. 3, and Friday, Jan. 4, to assist the displaced workers.

Times and locations for the sessions have yet to be determined, but the department will contact each of the affected workers to provide additional details this week.

Edgecomb acknowledged there have been a lot of rumors about the layoffs and the number of employees who lost jobs. He said he had not heard solid information about the number of displaced workers.

Company officials were not available for comment over the weekend. Caribou City Manager Steven Buck also could not be reached for comment over the weekend.

Located on Sweden Street, ATX is a tax software firm that set up shop in Caribou in 1992. Its parent company, CCH Small Firm Services based in Rome, Ga., acquired ATX in September 2006.

According to a former employee, who spoke on condition of anonymity, the firm announced the layoff to the affected employees Thursday afternoon, and the cuts took effect immediately.

[Jack from Ohio]

Some things do not need further explanation. I am changing software next year, and the firm I work for will too. We have both been ATX clients since 2002. The firm I work for had 3,122 clients in 2006. But it is obvious that CCH is unconcerned.

I have been on the "bought out and dropped client" list 3 times now, and have learned the warning signs. Tech support by people using Google, long wait times and it is just January, login to the "help function of the website" is a lottery as to whether it will work or not, (definitely set up by someone who has never had to use such a site) laying off seasoned, experienced, and caring workers...

Need I say more? Some things need NO explanation.

[MAMalody]

<<<<According to a former employee, who spoke on condition of anonymity, the firm announced the layoff to the affected employees Thursday afternoon, and the cuts took effect immediately.>>>>

Just addressing the above comment and not the other ATX deficiencies, I normally recommend to my clients (when asked how to do it) that when they are going to terminate an employee to have it take place immediately. Unless there are extenuating circumstances, I also recommend that the date of termination would be the last day of a payperiod. There is simply too much damage a terminated employee can do to a firm before they leave. I also recommend some type of severance package that can help the transition.

I am not trying to start a new thread of thought or to co-op this one. I also am not one of the employees that has been terminated, however, I can appreciate their feelings.'

The issue that I don't understand here is the quality of the help that is being displaced by other less qualified help. Most companies have learned that you get what you pay for and a minimum wage "tech support" employee is not the same as an experienced, trained, knowledgable tech support employee. I have always wanted to pay am employee so that they did not want to go to any other business...in so doing, I always had good employees and good customer service. I got what I paid for, excellence.

[tax1guydc]

I've been to Caribou before - long time ago. (I have friends who live in Maine). The job market there is bad even in good times. I've been using ATX for years (back when they use to offer Saber). It's a shame to see experienced people like that go. I hope they can find work. Meanwhile, these lay offs are really hurting their customer support efforts. I was on hold for almost 40 minutes waiting to talk to a tech person. He was nice but I could tell he really didn't know that much about MAX. Why did they have to lay off people before tax season? Poor planning. I just hope they can get their act together soon.

[kcjenkins]

I think [suspect?] that what they are planning to do is try to push us to move to TaxWise. Problem is, the Power package, closest match to TTO, costs $2295 base price, as compared to TTO at $1595. And actually, TTO has quite a bit more which that TaxWise package does not include, even tho it costs $700 more. Like the built in research and the Trial balance, for which you would have to move up to the Power Accounting package that costs $2954.

So even if the program was just as good, it would cost a lot more. And frankly, I don't think it is just as good, either.

So I very much doubt that I will be moving that way, not after the way they have handled this situation. I can see that they don't want to maintain two "small-firm" programs. And of course, they would rather the more profitable of the two be the one they continue with. But I'm more likely to go to a different company, if they cheat us with bad service, after keeping us with false promises that nothing significant was going to change. The drop in support is already a violation of that promise, IMHO. I will continue to hope it improves. But I'm suspicious now.

[Don in Upstate NY]

I think [suspect?] that what they are planning to do is try to push us to move to TaxWise. ... I can see that they don't want to maintain two "small-firm" programs. And of course, they would rather the more profitable of the two be the one they continue with.

And they have a multi-year contract to provide TaxWise to a very important customer - the Internal Revenue Service. The IRS uses TaxWise in their walk-in offices and also for their volunteer preparer groups VITA and TCE. Instructions for the use of TaxWise are integrated into the IRS training manuals. See page 1 of Pub 678.

[BulldogTom]

But I'm more likely to go to a different company, if they cheat us with bad service, after keeping us with false promises that nothing significant was going to change. The drop in support is already a violation of that promise, IMHO. I will continue to hope it improves. But I'm suspicious now.

Wow, KC. I have never heard you talk like this. I am one of the "hotheads", not you. I am supposed to be the one who claims the "sky is falling". If you are voicing the possibility that you might leave, ATX is history.

The queen has dropped her pom-poms.

Let me know where you go if you leave after this year. I am still looking at Drake, but have not been able to pull the trigger.

Tom

Lodi, CA

[Maribeth]

Tom, I looked at Drake this year also before I renewed with ATX. My biggest problem with Drake is the "input" sheets and not being able to look directly at the return. I like the way that ATX is set up and after 9 years or so I don't want to go back to an input sheet process.

If CCH pulls the plug on ATX, I too hope that KC will help guide us to the next vendor.

Maribeth

[kcjenkins]

Like both of you, I don't like the way Drake works nearly as well as I like ATX. But I do like what I hear about the support, and I will be looking at it again this summer. Hey, maybe CCH will come to their senses and realize what a great program they own, and keep it going. But it does not look good, based on the moves they are making now. I'm not as hopeful as I'd like to be, but if I do move, I will certainly let everyone know where and why.

No software has a 'lock' on it's customers. The programs are 'tools', and if the tool no longer does what you need it to do, or the cost of the tool increases beyond it's value, then you shop for a new tool, right? It will be sad if ATX goes under, after improving so much in the last few years, while keeping the price increases small. We all wish the

Willets had stayed in the business. They had not only a great program, they had the right idea about listening to their customers and responding to our needs. That was what built the customer base.

CCH seems to have a VERY DIFFERENT IDEA about how to treat customers. It is not an improvement.

[mcb39]

No software has a 'lock' on it's customers. The programs are 'tools', and if the tool no longer does what you need it to do, or the cost of the tool increases beyond it's value, then you shop for a new tool, right? It will be sad if ATX goes under, after improving so much in the last few years, while keeping the price increases small. We all wish the

Willets had stayed in the business. They had not only a great program, they had the right idea about listening to their customers and responding to our needs. That was what built the customer base.

CCH seems to have a VERY DIFFERENT IDEA about how to treat customers. It is not an improvement.

[kcjenkins]

Well, I think we will be fine for this year, especially if we help each other here. Next year.....?

[Janitor Bob]

No software has a 'lock' on it's customers. The programs are 'tools', and if the tool no longer does what you need it to do, or the cost of the tool increases beyond it's value, then you shop for a new tool, right? It will be sad if ATX goes under, after improving so much in the last few years, while keeping the price increases small. We all wish the

Willets had stayed in the business. They had not only a great program, they had the right idea about listening to their customers and responding to our needs. That was what built the customer base.

CCH seems to have a VERY DIFFERENT IDEA about how to treat customers. It is not an improvement.

We all have so much respect for and dependence on your input and opinions that I find it frightening to hear you voice the same uneasiness that I have been feeling. Shades of Parsons Tech. Of course, we have all gone far beyond the expanse of that wonderful program, but who knows how they might have developed if they had been left on their own. To this day, I refuse to buy an Intuit product because of what they destroyed when they trashed that program. Thanks to Eric, we have the new "tool" that we need to hold us together without being under the manipulation of CCH. I will continue to monitor this board for any and all advice and suggestions regarding the future. I, too, have been a strong supporter of ATX and still am, but apprehension is now hanging over me.

I would add my opinion, but KC and mchampine have stated it very well. I am just glad that I have this board and everyone on it...both for true tax research assistance and to just be silly with.

[taxit]

I purchased Drake and ATX but decided to stay with ATX. I like to be able to see the tax forms also. However, Drakes support was very fast and very helpful. I also received an e-mail that in Drake the PA state forms were approved for efile in late December.

[joelgilb]

I am going to miss a number of the people at ATX that I used to speak with in tech support. So far Taxwise support has not come up to the level established by ATX in the past. Hope they improve soon!

I also hope that this is not a sign of ATX disappearing like so many other of the tax software products I have used in the past. Tired of changing software and I have seen and used Taxwise and was not happy with it.

Maybe its time to go back to Intuit.... Yikes, did I really say that?!

[Beth]

For those that are thinking of switching programs next year, I got a demo program of TRX (Tax refund Express) over the summer, I didn't spend too much time playing around with it, but the first impression I got was that it was similar to ATX, forms based and didn't look too difficult, and the price is very low. I don't know what their business program is like as I didn't look at the business side. Their website is http://www.trxalliance.com/

Just another option to look at.... I'm not a tax preparer , just a former employee...

[taxwoman]

I hope they don't try to push TaxWise on us. I've been using ATX for five years. It's not the best service in the world, but it meets my needs and the price is reasonable.

A friend of mine use to subscribe to Pencile Pushers (I think that's the name). He told me that CCH bought out that company a few years ago. Before you know it, CCH drop the program and tried to switch subscribers to their tax prep program instead - but they ended up jaking up the price and some customers didn't like CCH.

That is what I'm afraid is going to happen to ATX - CCH may eventually phase the program out and force us to take TaxWise -- "take it or leave it" attitude. These big companies just don't understand that if it's not broken don't "fix it." When will they ever learn?

As for TaxWise tech support, I've called them a couple times. They seem friendly but not very knowledgeable about ATX. It's funny - when I use to call ATX I would always get a New England accent, but when I call TaxWise I've been getting a Southern accent - and to think they could fool us in believing that nothing had changed with their technical support personnel.

[Don in Upstate NY]

For those that are thinking of switching programs next year, I got a demo program of TRX (Tax refund Express) over the summer, I didn't spend too much time playing around with it, but the first impression I got was that it was similar to ATX, forms based and didn't look too difficult, and the price is very low. I don't know what their business program is like as I didn't look at the business side. Their website is http://www.trxalliance.com/

Just another option to look at.... I'm not a tax preparer , just a former employee...

TRX markets IntelliTax aka OrrTax. I'm trying it this year. Found several bugs when I converted my 2006 ATX returns to TRX. Things like the 6251 showing an adjustment for AMT depreciation on assets linked to a 2106, and several of the NY forms where dates were apparently hard-coded in previous years instead of being relative to the current tax year. It also uses the Microsoft SQL engine so it can have installation and maintenance problems. On the plus side, they did release the e-file versions of the 1040 and NY before the season started. The knowledge base is very good, and technical support has different people for computer and tax problems.

[Dan]

I also looked at Drake tax software but since I have used ATX for a number of years and like ATX software, I didn't want to change. Before using ATX software I used AMTAX which was bought out by Drake. I hope ATX software is around to stay. The people at Drake were very friendly and helpful, they sent me a disk to try out.

[Teri2414]

I also dread the possibility of having to find a different software company. I've been using ATX since 1998! I've only had minor problems over the years and have only had to call support 4 times in that time period. I too prefer the form based program over the input/worksheet ones. Thompson sent me a 3 year ATX rate lock-in offer last summer, but I did not try it - maybe they'll send me another one this year?

[taxxcpa]

I purchased Drake and ATX but decided to stay with ATX. I like to be able to see the tax forms also. However, Drakes support was very fast and very helpful. I also received an e-mail that in Drake the PA state forms were approved for efile in late December.

It was awkward at first getting used to Drake. I have devised a 'cheat sheet' which tells me which screen to use for input to each line on form 1040. With the 'cheat sheet' in front of me, I can work just a quickly on Drake. The biggest problem I've found with Drake is in dealing with car expense which varies based on circumstances.

I have a preliminary version of my 'cheat sheet' in the files section of TaxPro Exchange. I'll post an updated version later.

[tax1guydc]

It seems very clear to me from reading the posts today that CCH did a half-ass job of helping ATX customers. I can understand their decision in laying off employees. Frankly, I don't think it makes sense to have two call centers. But it seems to me they could have waited until after tax season to lay off the ATX employees in Maine rather than do it a week before tax season started. If they really wanted to help their customers (and their employees) they should have given the employees the option to move to GA months ago (and maybe give them a financial incentive for doing so). Clearly, someone at the top was looking at the profits and decided jump the gun and lay off the ME employees without having a good back-up plan in place. I think CCH press release was only issued because customers like us are complaining about the poor customer service we're getting. I'm not really blaming the TaxWise employees because they probably got caught off guard like the rest of us. Sad. Very sad.

[taxpalady]

This is a great site. I'm glad I discovered it. After reading about the layoffs I now realize why I've been on hold for so long with ATX. I was on hold for 45 minutes before I was able to speak to someone. I had called Kleinrock because I have the Total Tax Office program, but the Kleinrock staff told me I had to call ATX! I didn't know they were separating both companies and requiring us to call ATX only. I thought both Kleinrock and ATX were the same company since I get both the research material and MAX. Everything is just so screwed up. I wish someone would give us better informaiton about who to call for problems.

[kcjenkins]

But hey, we have William, Nicole, Beth, and Kerry all on here helping us! Now, if we just had Sue.......

[Linda Mathey]

I am new to this board. I just found it a couple weeks ago. I appreciate the time taken to set it up and the input from the many people that post. I have used ATX for five years now and really like the program. Formerly I used CCH Prosystems and FastTax. Both good programs but very expensive. I hope CCH keeps ATX going or like others on this board I will be looking for something else. I love having not only all federal but all states and local returns, fiduciary, payroll, etc. TTO is a bargain.

[taxwork35]

I think it's sad that so many people had to get laid off. I've been using ATX for a few years and despite some minor problems its a good value for the money. What were they thinking in laying off so many experience people a week or so before tax season? To think that those employees were being strung along for months thinking they at least would have a job until after tax season, and then to have the rug pulled out of them right before they were going to help us - the customers. I knew that once they purchased both ATX and TaxWise that eventually they would have to consolidate one call center from a business point of view. Business is business. But to do it right before tax season when so many of us are depending on experience people to help us just doesn't make sense. Do major corporations care about their customers anymore?