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1- If nobody is complaining about your prices, you’re probably not charging enough. 2- I tell my clients I don’t strive to be the cheapest. I strive to be the best. Charge your price and be proud of your work.

Sent the above to a local colleague, who replied, " Simplexity or Complexity? To be or not to be" To which, in a fit of poetical contemplation and with deep apologies to old Will, I responded: "To be, or not to be, that is the question; Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer The slings and arrows of contradictory tax laws, Or to take arms against a sea of IRS auditors And by opposing, end them. To file - to comply, No more; and by comply to say we end The heartache and the thousand natural shocks That 1040 presentations are heir to: 'tis a consummation Devoutly to be wish'd. To file, to comply; To comply, perchance to amend - ay, there's the rub: For in that compliance of amending what penalties may come, When we have shuffled off this tax filing season Must give us pause - there's the respect That makes calamity of so long a career."

I had a former client return to me after leaving for one year. She went to HRB with one W2 and one 1098. She could not itemize for either federal or state. HRB charged $275, and I have already amended the state because HRB preparer didn't ask her DOB and so missed the extra deductions and credits for older filers. Also, I'm not charging enough....

Back when the K-2 and K-3 first came out and I was trying to explain to a client, a summer theater actress, but lapsed into a Dr. Seuss-like poem re K-2 and K-3... she emailed back: That's the difference between us - you think Dr. Seuss and I immediately go into dirty limerick mode. When deciding who next they should screw, The IRS knew what to do. They designed with some glee New K-2 and K-3 Nailing client and accountant, too!

Thank you cbslee. It's not flowing to the Schedule D, Line 5. I had to override it. Thank you jklcpa. Yes, the K-1 is marked "final.' And, I marked the K-1 "final' in the ATX K-1 input screen. It's not flowing to Schedule D, Line 5. It's got to be a programming error. I will contact Support. Every year I have some issue with this software. No wonder it takes me so long to prepare a return. Have to check every line of the tax return. Hopefully I won't have to start checking the math! A colleague introduced me to ATX. I think 2004? First year I used the software the educator expense deduction wasn't carrying to NY return. I called her about it. They were not aware of it. Had to amend some of their returns. I know the software is just a tool and it's not a substitute for a professional's knowledge..... Grace

As a CPA and a one man office, who prepares returns on the side, I know my rates are below what is considered customary. I confirmed that after reading through this post. There is no way my starting rate is $500, I'd have no clients. With that said, my rates are based on the complexity of the return and normally my rates are adjusted from year to year, in some instances they may even go down if the return warrants that. However, I know they are generally lower than they should be.

Location, demographics has a lot to do with fees too. I imagine a return we would charge $250 for, some here would charge $500 to $1,000. I know we should charge more than we do, especially when we have HRB calling us for advice Yes it happens. I helped a couple of their employees many times with tax questions. And the local Jackson Hewitt guy sends customers to us all the time !! Clients get sticker shock with Jackson's pricing and he sends them here !!

Damn she is smart. Tom Longview, TX

I don't use ATX anymore, but one thing I can think of, if this isn't a programming error, is that the K-1 should be marked "final" and that the input should as well.

Most of the time our elected representatives are voting on a law they haven't even read.

"Scholars, policymakers, and taxpayers themselves often cite complexity as one of the worst problems plaguing the tax system. Complaints include, among other things, that the Internal Revenue Code (the “Code”) is too long, too difficult to read, very complicated, and, often, unclear. Among the many costs of tax complexity are (1) billions of hours of paperwork and stress that taxpayers face each year, (2) monetary costs that taxpayers bear when they hire advisors and purchase software to report their tax liability and file their tax returns, (3) difficulty that taxpayers encounter when attempting to claim tax credits and other benefits, and (4) challenges the IRS confronts when attempting to deter tax avoidance and evasion opportunities that tax complexity often creates. As we have discussed extensively, one way in which the IRS manages tax law complexity is through a phenomenon we have called “simplexity” – the presentation of complex law to the public as if it is simple, without actual simplification of the underlying tax law. The IRS relies on simplexity in many plain language explanations of the tax law, such as IRS Publications and automated legal guidance (in the form of the Interactive Tax Assistant). Simplexity enables the IRS to explain the tax law in ways the public is more likely to understand, thereby fulfilling the IRS’s duty to help taxpayers comply with the tax law. However, simplexity has its own problems, including oversimplifying the tax law, and, ultimately creating a two-tier system, whereby sophisticated parties enjoy benefits from the underlying, complex law, which benefits are not available to the general public." This is a great explanation of our convoluted tax system. It does give us "job security" but even at our level of knowledge we don't have the depth of expertise to exploit the loopholes buried deep in the code.

I have some low income clients with a lot more class than high income clients. Per form has always worked well for me. A lot of circumstances I'll give a discount off the set fee, and a handful get surcharge above the per form charge.

I know that I am on the lower end of the spectrum. I agree mostly with Yardley CPA. I charges according to the circumstances. I know I am probably charging way too little, but you have to consider what the market will bear. In Central semi-rural Wisconsin, I don't have many high-class clients. I try to adjust fees yearly; some up and some down. I continue to tell my clients that this business is not all about money. They are first and foremost the most important presence in my office at any given time. I would never think of charging per form, per page or any other set method of pricing. I generally pull a number out of my head based on time and complexity; but I also consider the situation of the client. This might be wrong, but my clients are happy, I am happy and I sleep very well at night.

I'm glad you enjoyed my little offering.

In my state the number of Licensed Tax Preparers ( Oregon has mandatory Licensing ) has declined 11% in the last decade so everyone is busy.

I don't think you're missing anything. I'm working on a gal who won at a casino in December, so is paying back all her 2022 premium tax credit. Annual, calendar year, tax year. Just computed how much of an Traditional IRA contribution could lower her income enough to limit her payback. In her case, if she doesn't have money to pay the tax, she definitely doesn't have money to lock up into an IRA. Presenting her the results today. It's her decision what to do next. Anybody out there know of something we need to know? I have a vague memory of something about -- if you honestly thought you qualified when you applied, there's some exception to the payback. In these two cases, the taxpayer actually did qualify when they applied. I have almost no clients in the marketplace, and probably only this gal receiving advanced premium tax credit, so I'm not very familiar with where to look for help.

Yes Catherine, you have a real talent, perhaps there is another career in your future.

Well as a last full measure of my devotion to our work I again called Senator Bryce's office in Spotsylvania who after a lengthy discussion with his aide decided that any service veteran paid with a pension from the Defense Finance & Accounting Service qualifies for the benefit which oddly enough is passed on to their spouse after the veteran's death. Actually Gail retired Virginia National Guard members do in fact draw a pension from the Defense Finance & Accounting Service. It reads as follows Defense Finance and Accounting Service and in the second line just below U. S. Military Retired Pay.

This is fantastic, Catherine! It means you either have too much time on your hands at the moment or the muse struck you and resistance was futile. I hope you don't mind that I share this, with attribution, of course!

I've always charged what I feel is fair to both client and myself. My fees are generally well below the national average, definitely less than the H&R's. I don't aim to be the lowest cost, just what I think is fair. The per form fee ended up at $322 which I felt was high so I discounted it by $50. Their kids are aging out, so I spent several minutes with them explaining what credits they will be losing over the next few years. After all that he wanted to know what to do to lower my fee!

Single, no dependents, no credits, nothing. The return was really just the W-2 wages about $40K, standard deduction, fed and state withholding. Nothing else. Very simple and straightforward. As for the age, I doubt that it was a programming error when that 2021 return was prepared on 4/14/22. The preparer either had a typo or made up a date because the taxpayer did not get the benefit of an age-related deductions. How else would you explain that?

A fairly knowledgeable retired neighbor of mine has prepared their return on Turbo Tax for years. This year she was unsure about something so she asked for some online advice. Her Turbo Tax fee for their 2022 tax return was $277.

I sent out two copies of an estate income return, Priority Mail, about two weeks ago. One to the executrix and the other to her brother (co-executor). One is in NH and the other in CA. I'm in MA and can drive to the NH location in about 90 minutes. Both packages arrived the same day - within an hour of each other! - a week after mailing.

Way more than $300 - depending on complexity, up to about $600.

I would probably charge $595. Basically, I bill on value delivered plus a bit more for extra time.

(1) Trustee receives K-1 (1065) and CA state K-1 for the trust. (2) Trustee makes sure Form 1041 is prepared -- federal and state(s) and issues Forms K-1 (1041) to beneficiary (3) Individual reports income from K-1 (1041) on personal federal return and source state return and resident state return.

I sent a priority envelop to Virginia from Maryland yesterday afternoon around 4, and it arrived this morning in VA. I have a lot more great stories about the post office, than I do bad stories. I prefer the post office to any of the other shippers by a lot.

Sounds like the trusts are partners in a partnership. The trust should file a return reporting the K1 income on a 1041. then issue a K1 to the beneficiary. but you'll need a full accounting of the trust's income, expenses and distributions.

It's based on annual income. If AGI is below 400% FPL there is a flat dollar limit on amount that needs to be paid back.

Go ahead and share it, and attribution is fine. Yes, on occasion, the muse strikes, and it all just flows without effort. It struck this morning and off I went!

I spent a decade at an HRB Premium office. When I left, I was determined to cost MORE than H&R Block, because I provide more personalized service than the average HRB office. I think I started out that way. But I also think I've been increasing my prices at a much slower rate than HRB over the years. With the costs of my software, IT guy (think WISP and other requirements), equipment replacements, paper/toner even going as paperless as I can, and my occasional helper, I'm increasing 10% this year to try to catch up. My goal continues to be more expensive than the chains but less expensive than the CPA firms that provide one-stop shopping with bookkeeping, payroll, retirement plans, and other financial services. PS: I'm in pricey Fairfield County, CT.

Another day in the life of tax preparation

For CA, they want tax on the portion that was earned in CA. You will file a 540NR and attach a Form CA 540NR (Form CA stands for California Adjustments). Tom Longview, TX

NY requires 100% to be on the w2 and you allocate it on the it-203

And don't forget the 12 day occasional entry rule. This has worked for a client who does consulting in two places but is physically never in either for more than a few days.

Only if there is a "physical" location (or travels into the location to conduct business) within the taxing locale. (ex. I had a truck driver, lived in the county, came into town to load [US Mail]. Did NOT file or pay local as our local rules were 2 hour presence within the city limits.))

I'd charge about $500, allotting maybe $100 to the Sch C as a professional fee deduction next year. The owner of our firm said that all new clients start at $325 this year, and so far no one has balked (although we rarely take new clients so there weren't that many to complain). jkl, HRB had to have a birthdate or wouldn't be able to efile. HRB charges a lot for HOH filing status and refundable credits, if she had any of those, or maybe she got a refund advance?

Determine whether there can be a loss carry forward. Many/most municipalities will allow some sort of carry forward so establish that. If there is a loss on the federal that can be carried forward, it will carry over to that extent on the following year and Ohio begins with federal AGI. I am not sure how a part-year loss in 2022 would be carried to full year 2023 but would go with it, I think. But I can't think too much more tonight.

More than $300 but, if well organized, probably less than $500. If lots of messages getting the documents (like the 1098T and answers), maybe more. I bill by time, not form. When it takes a lot of time - begin the return, ask questions, pick it up again, more messages for answers, etc. - it costs the client lots of money. Like the video that's been around, I'm billing time and also expertise.

Thank you all for the wealth of information. It is truly appreciated.

I have a similar situation. Partnership makes distribution to trust; trust makes distribution to individual. Trust deducts tax prep and income distribution deduction. Very simple. Trust also follows 65 day rule since partnership makes distribution right at year end.

I am really glad that I decided that I don't have the expertise to prepare Estate and Trust Tax Returns.

This thread reminds me of the old days of tracking my ATX updates (disks). Presque Isle to Louisvile to Ashland Ky (my local distribution center) in one day. "I should have it in the morning." Nope, I have an Ohio zipcode so it went to Columbus Ohio, then back to Ashland Ky for delivery. Every time.

And there "should" NOT be a filing requirement for the local, IF tax is withheld because they "work" in the locale. Now if they own a business (or rental) in the locale...

Family sent me a box of cookies from MD. they went to ny first and then to GA then back to ny before they go to me here in VA. Took about 6 months. Dog wouldn't eat too hard.

Sometimes mail gets stuck in the bottom of a canvas mail bag for days, months or years.

No, they do not unless they work in that municipality. We live in a township (very common here). When my husband worked at the university in Cincinnati, tax was withheld. He retired before COVID but now WFH people not actually working within a taxing district do not have to pay that income tax. Cities still fight it. The 'official' address you mention is likely just the post office. Our post office area is Cincinnati but we are not Cincinnati residents. Clear as mud?

That would be nice, but you have to handle this somewhat manually by reporting the income in both states, then taking the credit for taxes paid to the nonresident state.

Actuaries are the math people without the personality to be economists. Or even undertakers!

Trust me, economists have LESS personality than accountants. They don't call it the Dismal Science for no reason.