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Thanks for the interesting topic, Sara. I agree with a lot of what's been said already. I don't think it's a bad thing to take on work that will be a stretch of our abilities as long as we are confident in the end of arriving at the correct result, but if in doing research and studying the topic, we find that the path is not 100% clear or over our heads, then we need to be honest with ourselves so that we don't do a disservice to our clients and leave ourselves open to claims and penalties in the end. In those cases, I agree that a better course would be to either turn that work over to someone more qualified or arrange a paid consult with an expert in that area. One thing that you mentioned in your original post that only RitaB addressed is the wide range and level of questions asked here and on other forums. I have mixed feelings at times on this topic of seeking help on online forums. As in life, there are those that will expend all effort to do things themselves, and then there are others that frequently look to others for help. I'll say that my first steps are always to research first through all my available means before posing a question, because I feel that is what I'm being paid for, not for someone else to do the work for me. With that being said, I think some people really know the answer and are only looking for reassurance since many of us are solo practitioners that don't have someone in the next office to bounce an idea off of or ask "am I on the right track?" As for the level of questions posed, I do scratch my head at times when the answers are easily found in a form's instructions, and my first reaction to that is to think that the person probably spent more time typing the question here, and possibly duplicating it on other forums, than if he or she took the time to open the instructions. From that end of the spectrum, we also see the other end of it with questions that are very complex in nature (like some on trusts and estates), or that the member is asking so many how-to questions (liquidating a partnership comes to mind), that they are almost beyond the scope of help that can be provided here or on any online forum. With both issues on the questions, those that don't do their homework before asking for help and those questions that are either overly simplistic or overly complex, that is the nature of on an online forum and it is what it is. It also stems somewhat from the diversity within our membership, with some fairly new to tax preparation and others whose careers are winding down. At least we are a forum that doesn't help the general public! One thing that really bugs me about the way some people use online forums is when the exact same question is posted within minutes across multiple forums. Those that are doing that should realize that many of us are on here and are also on those others forums too. It shouldn't come as a big surprise that this is the forum where I spend most of my time, and there have been multiple occasions where I and others have taken time out of our day to help someone only to visit another forum and find that the question has already been answered, or it has an ongoing discussion, and I don't think that is exactly fair to those that have taken the time to help. My last thought is that I want to express to you all that I think this is a really terrific group of people that are always willing to take the time to help a fellow member and share information freely. There aren't many days when I visit that I don't learn something new or realize there is more to an issue than I'd previously considered. /rambling, disjointed post

I agree with SaraEA that we should know our limitations but If you start doing returns and you limit yourself to do returns only that match your ability, you will never learn and you will never make a living out of this profession. I have noticed that the best is to have honest people as clients. When they come with a new additions to their return, don't let them go.... but rather adjust yourself to the new challenge and you will learn a lot from your research. That's what I do for my clients and since they already trust me, I tell them "Since this year, you have X item that is new on your return, I will need a couple more weeks to do some research because I want to make sure we start correctly with this new addition to your return. I will call you later on and ask you a few more questions". I was happy when the IRS was going to match skills with the kind of returns we could prepare. That was going to force us to take extra courses and pass new tests. That was the idea behind preparer's examination that thanks to the Love case is on hold. What do you think about my motto: "If my EA credentials, some how, authorize me to prepare American Airlines return, then the sky is the limit" I never understand (I am sorry if I sound harsh), why if someone has been preparing taxes for 10 or more years, he/she cannot pass the EA exam? I do want to hug those people.

BINGO! Working in a one-person office (or with an assistant who is a wizard at collating returns but not so much what goes IN to those returns) there is no one to bounce those ideas off. I also sometimes ask for help for something when I have looked online and can't find what I need. There is something in my brain's make-up that seems unable to use the right search terms; I use what makes perfect sense to ME to fill the whole in my knowledge. It rarely gets me what I need. People online have more success in that regard than I do. I have also found that once I have searched long and hard for an answer - and then give up and post a question - the answer pops up from wherever it had been hiding about ten minutes later. Like it was just waiting for me to cry "uncle!" before deigning to allow itself to be seen.

You report the scammers EVEN if you owe money to the IRS.

Contacting the IRS might help, but I contacted my telephone company. When they call me, I answer the phone and scream a stream of expletives at them. It might not help, but it sure makes me feel better. I actually think it worked because I don't get calls anymore. Haven't had one in MONTHS, maybe a year. The telephone company might have something to do with it, but I would like to think it's my tactics! I tell my clients to get a loud whistle and blow it into the phone when they get a call.

Well, I think that's a really good question. I've been staring at my keyboard for quite a while and I can't find the "any" key. There isn't one on my iPad or Mac either.

I agree with at least part of what everybody has said. I like to take on new things. But I will sure as ^&*% wear out the Pubs and Google before I will post a question. There are some people who should not prepare taxes. In an EA exam study group, I recently saw a participant struggle because there was no % key on her calculator. She had no idea how to cope with that. I almost cried. I have seen others answer a question incorrectly that had already been answered correctly. IN THE SAME THREAD. RIGHT BELOW THE CONFIRMED CORRECT ANSWER. WITH THE "YIPPEE, YOU GOT IT, CONGRATS" RIGHT THERE. That hurt me. I wanted to hug them.

I concur, to a degree. During tax season I try to stick with what I know, as I do not have the time to do extensive research. But after tax season, I enjoy the challenge of doing the research and learning new things. I have declined returns after researching the subject and deciding that the situation was too complex for me. Most clients appreciate my honesty when I tell them I don't have the expertise to deal with situation and come back the next year for their "normal" return. I have had a few that were mad they had to go elsewhere and pay the higher fees that most "specialists" charge. As a one man show, I really appreciate having forums like this where tax pros with more experience and knowledge are willing to share that knowledge and experience with those of us who want to learn and grow.

It is the newest scam targeted at gullible seniors. Everyone with aged parents should be making them aware and telling them not to talk to a caller asking for personal information. These scam call work at the rate of about 1 out of 7. Everyone should help all the seniors you know to be part of the 6 that are not taken advantage of.

I meant to post here on the forum about another scam too. About 10 days ago, I received a call on my office line from someone claiming to be from Medicare and needing to update my husband's personal information in the Medicare database. Yeah, right! The caller had a foreign accent and with lots of background noise, and is obviously a similar scam to others that try to fool the recipient into sharing personal data. I did a quick google search and found that this is targeting those on Medicare, Social Security, and that might have supplemental insurance, and it may be phrased as needing to update the information presented on any one of those cards.

Tax preparation is not what it used to be when you could use credit card interest as an itemized deduction. It is far more complex and if a person has been doing this for 10 years and cannot pass the EA exam, I want to give that person a hug. My best teacher used to tell us: "if you know, you remember... if you remember, you know." I understand that dome people get nervous when they are going to take an exam. My teacher used to say that we get nervous when we are not prepared and when we know we don't know. He used to ask us: "Do you get nervous when you brush your teeth? Do you get nervous when you wash your hands? Why don't you get nervous on those events, he would ask? The answer is simple, it is because you know how to brush your teeth and you know how to wash your hands.". As Sara said, when you take the EA exam, you go like "wow, I have been doing taxes without knowing a lot". The exam itself is easy but shows you how much you don't know. For the simple questions asked here, I like them. If we start embarrassing people when easy questions are asked, no one will ask questions and the forum will die. I have no issues answering simple questions when someone is new... I have more issues when a 10 years experienced tax preparer leave crucial information such as "how much money are we talking about". Yes, please ask questions no matter how simple they are... that's why we have this forum. During tax season, I take 10 minutes to see what's going on on this forum, If at that moment, I remember a simple question, I ask it instead of researching it.... I am here anyways. I am pretty sure some people know the answer because they researched it and they have and they are ready to share it.

NCPE offers workshops for fiduciary and estate returns. Beanna Whitlock is the instructor for those, I believe, and she is an excellent and knowledgeable speaker. Unfortunately, they only offer about three per year. You can check out their website at www.ncpeseminars.com/

You make a very good point.

This has been an interesting topic. I try to know my limitations, and not to ask questions that two minutes of research will answer, but sometimes in the heat of tax season, my brain gets a little fried and I can barely remember my name. I actually had another preparer in our small town refer a client to me on April 14 because the other preparer was not comfortable doing foreign returns. The return was a New Mexico return. And as far as Pacun's comment about people who have been preparing returns for years not being able to pass the EA exam, I can understand that. Some people just don't test well - they have the knowledge but in a testing situation they cannot communicate that knowledge. But thanks to everyone for being here and putting up with me when I lose my mind.

https://www.irs.gov/uac/newsroom/scam-phone-calls-continue-irs-identifies-five-easy-ways-to-spot-suspicious-calls "If you know you don’t owe taxes or have no reason to believe that you do, report the incident to the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration (TIGTA) at 1.800.366.4484 or at www.tigta.gov." https://www.irs.gov/uac/stay-vigilant-against-bogus-irs-phone-calls-and-emails "You should also report it to the Federal Trade Commission. Use the “FTC Complaint Assistant” on FTC.gov. Please add "IRS Telephone Scam" to the comments of your report."

I totally agree with everything that has been said here. There is nothing wrong with telling someone the return they want you to prepare is out of your league. Done it several times. I have had clients insist they want me to do it regardless of my limitations but I still refuse. Yes, I have taken on challenges but like Rita said, burn up google, the pubs and whatever other references I have available before proceeding. Just to add to Rita's % key, I had an ATX support rep tell me he thought he had heard it all until a lady who I am assuming was a tax preparer had asked where the "any" key was. Several years ago but still funny

Hi Bill, one other thing....you might want to meet with the client and go over the nuts and bolts of your basis calculations. Maybe he has some additional information that will make a difference, or maybe he'll feel more confident that your basis calculation is correct. Depending on their level of interest and comprehension, I try to get input from the client in some of these weird situations, and especially if we aren't in agreement.

These opinions uncover the real reason most of us are still in the profession: The opportunity to learn something new everyday. It could be a basic Sch A that forces us to look into the rules on 50%/30% charitable contributions, or an odd household formation that makes us review the finest details of filing status or dependency exemptions. Like others, I love the research into pubs, rev rulings, court cases, and the code itself to assure that I'm doing whatever it is right. I love to take courses too. Way back when I was at Block, I'd sometimes take 100+ hours. Now that I have to pay for CEs, I could never afford that many. Even with an EA, though, there are just some things I am not comfortable doing. Sure I can memorize the instructions and read the rulings with their wonderful examples, but if I'm still dizzy it's better for the client if I just say No. Some things are best done under a mentor, or at least someone to look it over. If you don't have such a person available, maybe it's better if you don't learn by practicing on a real client. And some rules change so dramatically it might be best to step aside, e.g.,the ACA rules for employers. Even if you've attended a million seminars and read the ever-changing rules a million times, I for one am still confused. We are deferring to payroll companies more and more. Like I said, unless congress really simplifies the code, we will eventually be better off becoming specialists in this or that area of code, not unlike physicians who now specialize in various parts of the body. The tough part is when an established client presents us with something like a trust, estate, new partnership, whatever, that is not something we have done before. We don't want to turn them away because they've relied on us for everything tax. Some preparers can do it--I've had some clients come to me for entity returns because their regular preparer can't do them, and they take the K-1s I prepare back to him or her for their individual return. I also have a couple of clients whose accountant does their partnership returns but will not do individual returns, so I'm the one who gets their K-1s. I even have a client who has me prepare his Sch C every year--nothing else! He then takes it to his preparer. I give that preparer credit for knowing what he doesn't know.

I agree with Sara and rfassett that when a return is out of your league and you know your limitations it is time to pass it on. I remember my first (easy) SCorp. Before I tackled it I took a short SCorp course just to be sure I had the basics down pat. But what happens with many clients they grow and get more complicated, now it becomes tricky, do you stay on (because they want you) or move on for the client's benefit. You really need to know those limitations, do what is best for the client. Like Rita, I will research and Google and learn as much as I can about a subject I don't know, then make the decision to say, this is not for me, which I have done at times. This is better for your own peace of mind. We don't need more stress, we already have ACA for that. And Lion, you're not old, I think mature and wise. How else would you know that your baby granddaughter is more important than all of this. You just made me remember there are things more important than work, life is short, let's make the best of it.

Sometimes we learn our limitations by doing a (simple for its type!) return. I did a couple of 1040NR's about a decade ago - for two sisters here on some special learn-and-work visas; I don't really remember the details. For that type of return, they were dead simple. I researched and fretted and fumed and went 'round in circles and tied my hair in knots and went nuts with them. Got them done; clients were happy and went back to Taiwan happy. I was and am as certain as I could have been at the time that they were correct. And never again will I touch a 1040NR. Great learning experience. (Had they been *any* more complex I would have handed all the paperwork back with an apology and a good luck wish.)

I prepare ALL individual returns on Form 1040, even those that qualify to file on EZ or A. It's easier for me, knowing where everything belongs, where to look when proofreading. And, it doesn't make a bit of difference in efiling or to the IRS. I, too, make things easy on myself. I do want to get as far along as Randall. I'm not sending enough returns elsewhere. Doing only a handful of trusts, an occasional estate, a few S-corps, etc., slows me down. But, they come from existing 1040 clients who create a trust or spouse opens a biz or.... I'm old and have a baby granddaughter in another state and want to spend less time on each return, not more. Gotta work on this!

Not sure I am in total agreement. When I started my practice, I was committed to doing whatever it took to make it work. As it turns out, I am that jack of all trades - master of some. Of course, my starting point was a Master of Taxation degree from a reputable school and experience of several years with one of the big four. So I was well in my comfort zone to take what came. Now that said, as time has gone on, I more and more hear that voice in my head stating "a man has to know his limitations". I can afford that now. Back when I started my practice, I knew no limitations. I would take the work and use whatever resources were at my disposal to get up to speed to get the job done. I appreciate that some of the questions posted on these list servs seem elementary; but so did mine when I was still wet behind the ears. We are all trying to eke out a living and doing what it takes to get the job done. Now....all of that said, I still break out in a cold sweat when I am forced to do a 1040EZ. And I am not in the least joking about that. I avoid EZ and 1040A s like the plague. A man has to know his limitations.

I agree completely. Learning when to say "no"'is extremely important. I haven't always made the best decision in this area and have taken on work from time to time which I should have declined. In recent years I have gotten better at passing on some projects, but it's a never-ending process. Just had a conversation this weekend with someone over preparing a return with a large casualty loss as a result of a house fire which they claim was only partially insured. After looking over the scope of the project and potential size of the loss, I decided to tell them they need someone who is more familiar with this type of return and has deeper pockets if they make a mistake. As I see it, the decision to decline work can be based in several factors. It might be a matter of not being up to speed on the particular issue. It might also be a matter of not being willing to invest a lot of time on a type of return you don't see very often. Or it could be a simple decision to mitigate preparer risk.

Second, NCPE. Best classes I've ever taken.

Absolutely, at every opportunity!

I agree that it's a waste of time reporting it. I save myself a lot time and aggravation over this by not answering the call if I don't recognize the caller id. I let it go to my answering machine and then call the person back. The amount of incoming calls from other than clients is crazy with the calls from scammers, charities, political polls, card processors, office suppliers, CPE and software providers, just to name a few. I was up and in my office working on a large project a few nights ago when, at 2:30 a.m., I received a call from a "private caller" with a foreign accent.

Reporting the scammers is a waste of our professional time. There is no method to track them as they use internet phones that spoof IP addresses and phone numbers. Save your time and energy for something useful. Reporting the scammers is like killing flies outside. It may make you feel good, but will not have any effect on the amount of flies you will have to encounter. Simply hang up, curse at them or whatever.

Hey, keep asking the questions if it helps; we all have those brain freeze moments. I didn't mean to discourage anyone, and I almost never get to the point of wanting to Rita-hug anyone. We don't need everyone prefacing posts with "I did all this research and still can't find the answer" type of statements. Actually, I think we get some good thought provoking questions and darned good answers given on here considering we are a pretty small group compared to other forums. I'm as nervous as everyone else during the height of the season with those wondering thoughts of if I'm thinking through the tax issues properly. I don't know about the rest of you, but I get kind of nervous processing my own simple return. It's not the numbers because I know those are all correct, it's that moment when I send the e-file. Why? WHY?

The latest Journalmof Accountcy survey once again shows Drake at the top. Drake users are a loyal bunch. No surprise to any experienced user that Drake scored high in all the following areas Price Support Most Recommended for New Practice Ease of Installation Handling Updates During Tax Season Ease of Electronic Filing Handling of Affordable Care Act Calculations Ease of Use Transferring Data within Returns Handling Multistate Business Returns Conversion Package

@jklcpa thanks for catching that!

I agree with you, Rita. Some people should not prepare returns. If I am not comfortable doing a return for a client, I send them away. I like my "off season" best when it is not colored with letters and errors coming back at me. I do basic 1040's with every aspect. I'm plenty busy with that. The "simple 1040's" are no longer "simple" because if they truly WERE simple, those people don't pay to prepare them. When a new client says it's simple, it isn't.

The stock receives stepped up basis. Calculate the mean of the high and low sales prices on the date of death for basis. (If the client died on a weekend, see my earlier posts on how to calculate basis.) If the sales proceeds are more than $600, a 1041 is required, even if the net gain is less than that. This can be a benefit to the beneficiaries because you get to deduct probate fees, attorney fees, and accounting fees (even if not paid yet!) If these deductions are more than the capital gain, the excess is passed to the beneficiaries in the final year of the estate. They can deduct these on Sch A without the 2% haircut.

I thought his reply looked odd for some reason, especially for a first-time post. Didn't bother with his link.

For transparency to the membership in case anyone saw the post, there was a response from a new member above that listed his state as NY while the IP address of his registration and post indicates those originated in India. The post included a link that was to his cloud services company.

Sounds right to me the way they presented the W2. But look closely and make sure there is no CA withholding or CA SDI on the W2. If a CA company employs a worker who does no work in the state, CA will not tax the non-resident for those wages. There are 2 things at work here, the domicile and where the work is performed. If the employee is legitimately domiciled in NV, and the work was also done in NV, there is no tax to CA. As Controller in my day job with employees in NV, I have prepared these types of W2's. Tom Newark, CA

In this client's case, I'd use the W-2 as prepared. If the employee is a nonresident and never sets foot in CA, the wages would not be taxed in CA. If the person does make an appearance within the state, that's a different story. CA uses a "source" rule to determine this. You can read it here under "compensation" : https://www.ftb.ca.gov/individuals/fileRtn/Nonresidents_PartYear_Residents.shtml Also, here is a very good article that explains it too. Its focus is on the CA auditing businesses with remote employees, but the explanation is there: http://www.sangerlaw.com/Articles/NonresidentsWorkingRemotely.pdf

PTIN User Fee. The IRS issued final regulations relating to the imposition of certain user fees on tax return preparers (T.D. 9781; TAXDAY, 2016/08/10, I.1). The final regulations, which affect individuals who apply for or renew a PTIN, reduce the user fee from $50 to $33 .

I agree. I wish I could get the contract to process all the PTIN renewals at $17 each - I think I could quit doing tax returns. And actually come close to only working a few months a year, which everyone thinks is what I do anyway. Ha. Ha. /s

I figured it out. This is just making permanent the reduction we got last year.