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Part of what I love about this forum is the never-ending stream of fascinating situations and (I say this sincerely) brilliant responses! If there were a John Grisham for tax law, that person could have a never ending supply of plot lines just from reading the intriguing stuff posted here.

I started using it last year but it's only required (for a 4868) when there is an electronic funds transfer.

Record number (40) for the fourth year in a row. And that despite the fact I'm about 10 ahead of where I was on deadline eve last year. I'll probably knock out a handful more before the clock tolls midnight tomorrow, but it'll still beat last year's record. Don't you just love those folks who email on the day before saying "I'll try to get my stuff to you later today. You might have to do an extension if you're not able to get to it." Ya THINK?!?!? I have about ten clients I file extensions the first time I open my software in January. One of them shocked me this year--got all his stuff in by early March. Most of them barely make the extended deadline despite my pleas all summer to get their materials to me. All summer, they promise they won't wait till the last minute. Then on October 13 I get an "Oops, I did it again" e-note. I'd fire them but a couple are among my closest friends and one is my daughter. Deep sigh.

I have one like that, doesn't get me his stuff until April and it's always a Quickbooks mess that requires lots of back and forth with his bookkeepers. This year I'm trying to have all my extension done by 4/30, so when I saw the QB guy's mess, I told him that I'd put him on extension with a super rough estimate of what he should pay, but then he should find someone else to actually file for him, because I just know that would drag on into June. Too bad, he's a nice guy, but it's the same thing every damn year. Otherwise I have one person waiting on a trust K1 that will probably be in May, and that's it!! On to the 941s and 990s...

As an additional question, do you all use the Form 8878?

Pretty clever to leave out bottles as "suggestions." When I worked in the office, clients often brought doughnuts and candy. I've never cared for sweets, but everybody else in the office enjoyed them. Once I got an Edible Arrangement. Now that I enjoyed. A couple of times a season clients would send in lunch for everyone, which was much appreciated. Fancy booze and wines came in too, but seemed to disappear. Go figure.

I stopped using them a few years ago, when the one outside our post office got robbed in Dec. Now I take everything inside to mail.

I am missing a few 1099s for the one I'm asking for, but if I used that method then and using the information I do have so far, the tax reported on 4868 would be substantially understated b/c the client took an additional ~ $133K out of his IRA in 2022 without notifying me and didn't pay any of the quarterly estimates I'd set up. He did withhold federal tax @ 20% but is in the highest bracket.

One of my customizations of the 4868 in ATX is to link the prior year tax from the Comparison form to the 4868. I figure last year's tax is better than a zero, especially if I have no documents from the client. Programmers should add an option to the 4868 to use last year's tax rounded up to the next thousand, to make our lives easier.

If I have one of those and no debit payment, I send the coupon showing amount due to the client (securely, duh) and let them send it in with, or without, a check. I just ask them to let me know how much they paid.

We have a similar list - we don't put them on extension until we submit all extensions the first week of April. But we know who they are and that they'll call or email in a panic late tomorrow afternoon apologizing for being late and asking us to put them on extension. Same folks every blessed year.

There have been some nasty collapses in real estate market. If house was appraised in 2007 and then sold in 2009 or 2010, that would do it, easily.

8878 only with payment. MA retroactively nullified extensions if no payment was made, and tax was due - until they stopped bothering with extensions unless there was a payment made. IRS could make the whole thing moot by granting automatic extensions of time to file and giving the option to pay in April - and still add in penalties and interest is payment is made after the April deadline if tax turned out to be due. 'Course, that would make sense, so they won't.

I do as BrewOne by using the 8878 only with electronic funds transfer.

If there is a dependent child, are you talking about Qualifying Widow(er) status? That would not be for 2022, I agree w/ Margaret, MFJ filing as surviving spouse.

I had to fight this in the early '90's. NOT fun. Since then extensions, after client explanation and approval, is filed with ABSOLUTE WORST case scenario. If client won't agree to worst case scenario, they provide, in writing, the numbers for 4868.

That raises a couple possibilities. (a) The house could have been overvalued by $200,000 or (b) The house was sold for less than FMV and the difference should have been reported as a gift.

Before she became my client, which is many years ago; she inherited a $600,000 house from her father and sold it for approximately $400,000 just to get rid of it because it was standing empty. They wipe some of it out with CG; the most prominent one two years ago when they sold a Rental property. They still have a lot of CL left. Even more astonishing; WI only allows a $500 CL per year. They are a nice couple who are secure as one can be these days. They have invested wisely and live a happy, but not ostentatious life. They winter in AZ and come home in April. I have to say that when they first came to me, I was as intimidated as I have ever been. I thought they were way out of my league. That is no longer true. They trust me explicitly and I value them as clients.

79-113 says extension could be invalid if the tax liability is not properly estimated. It does not make any reference to paying.

The problem, @BrewOne, is all the clients for whom we have absolutely nothing *except* a request for an extension. If it's someone who always owes, it's one thing, and we can recommend some type of payment. If it's clients who see-saw back and forth between owing and getting a refund, not so much. We file extensions even with no information, if we don't have anything. What I won't do is use a dartboard to decide what people should pay, just to make it "legitimate" because as far as I'm concerned, a figure pulled from a dartboard (or ceiling) is just as accurate as zero.

Yeah, I remember years ago filing extensions with a zero balance due, never caused a problem. Thanks BrewOne, I had forgotten about the Direct Pay extension option .

I was tacking this onto a thread and thought it probably deserved it's own. Have heard preparers argue about entering all zeroes on a 4868 and although it might be better than doing nothing, Rev. Rule 79-113 (yes, it's an old one) was recently brought to my attention. It essentially says that the extension is invalid if the tax liability is not properly estimated. The burden would be on the taxpayer to show that they did not have evidence at the time of the filing that discredited the estimate. I basically tell anyone who phones just wanting an extension to go to Direct Pay and, under 'Extension', pay what they think they owe. The IRS FAQ on extensions states that this payment counts as having filed an extension and you would not be on the hook for an invalid extension.

Most of the ones that owe, I made go to DirectPay and myconneCT and other state websites to pay/file their own extensions. It's faster than collecting signed 8878s. Those that probably owe but refuse to pay now, I put the tax liability I project, any withholding, balance due, and $0 payment on the 4868. However, CT won't accept a balance due extension without a payment, so I zero it out if I can't convince the client to pay, because I also don't have time to get them the forms that they'll end up not filing anyway. I do have a few that I upload the forms, and they DO mail them with payments. Really wish for automatic extensions to file. Even with teaching our clients to pay in April, we'd still save a LOT of time not generating more paperwork and more e-files.

It will depend on how much, if any, income the student has at that time.

Mail in the 7004 with a check. There could be any one of a number of errors floating around in the computers at the IRS, some of which may go away when they finally process other information sent to them. But it won't be done today or tomorrow.

The tax is the only number that matters. What you've paid and what you owe are not a consideration.

The error says the tax period is wrong. Did you mark short year initial return? What dates did you enter? I'm guessing you did not check one of the boxes for initial return?

I cannot clarify that as she came to me with the Carryover loss already established and I don't know the particulars of the story. They have been with me for several years and have never been questioned by the IRS since I have known them.

I'm planning to treat myself and buy a bottle of single malt scotch tomorrow (Tues, April 18).

I don't understand why the filing isn't simply MFJ with date of death shown. How does HOH apply at all? I must be missing something (not the first time!).

Hmm I do not even leave my beer bottles or alcoholic fancy cans in my office trash! I take them all upstairs at night!! so office staff does not see! Discussion is how to drink the moonshine 2 quarts client gave us - for the 18th - get our husbands to be DD's?

Man you can really tell it's the end of the season. My spelling is shot along with most of the rest of me.

Sure, i 'll let them know that you told me to do so (s).

I've heard that it can come up during an audit, that an extension would be invalidated then if filed with zero owed or an unreasonable number. I don't know if one instance would move an auditor to then open a "preparer project" to look for more zero extensions from that same preparer. I'm filing more than I'd like to this weekend. I think I've heard back from everyone who's going to make a payment. But many more clients have asked for extensions without further response to my queries. Their numbers are not on my ceiling. I figure it's like basis -- if they didn't give me what I need, then it's zero.

Per 4868 instructions, IRS considers that if at least 90% of tax is paid in by that extension date and if tax bal due is paid when return is filed, then that constitutes reasonable cause for not paying with the extension and late payment penalty won't be assessed. Sorry on my phone and having trouble going back and forth to the docs.

I've done this many times over the years too and never had an extension deemed invalid either. Obviously anecdotal.

This is exactly what I was going to say.

I wonder if anyone has ever run in trouble by filing a zero estimate when there was tax due. I don't have any clients now, but I certainly used to have clients where I filed a zero estimate.

I can't even imagine how that could have happened?

That would be rare and amazing. My client is carrying a $200,000 carryover loss on the sale of an inherited house.

I completely understand--but the Direct Pay method can also put the burden on them for the amount they pay. Yes, they may come back with, I don't think I owe anything. So if you file a 4868 with zeroes, at least get in writing that you warned them about accuracy and possible penalties. I know it gets old saying "It's an extension to file, not to pay."

You are assuming my/our clients have the sense God gave a goose and not email their own sensitive data. At which point, all we can do is save it to secure drives, delete the email *and* attachments, and instruct the client to do the same.

3rd! I leave a few of my favorites out on my shelf so clients know what to get me for gifts. Recent client asked about selling his house [abt 10 min discussion] He sent me a gift pack of 4 Johnney Walker bottles.

Would any of them know the difference?

How this for a response? “Glad to hear this good news. You’ve learned a lot about QBO, which may help you get your info together in a timely manner next year. Meanwhile, attached is your extension, because I don’t plan to stay up until 3am working on the revisions. “

Catherine- if the IRS would just use words like "poof" we would be able to do our research a little more efficiently!