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Told a client right before lunch that he owes $12k - threw a fit. Last year he owed $11k, made more money this year, didn't change his W4 or make estimated taxes like I told him to do last year when he threw a fit. I reminded him of all this and asked "did you think this was mysteriously going to get paid by someone else?" I doubt he comes back next year. How do you live in the mid-west, make $300k per year, have a healthy family and NOT save any money? He said they would be withdrawing the last of their retirement funds to pay taxes. Mind boggling for a 47 year old.

some of these clients this year! all I can think of is the Cheech and Chong skit - "hey - this looks like dog shit"

I am with Lion. The purpose of a retainer is to cover time spend incase the client disappears on you or doesn't pay. I would bill for my time net the retainer and present an invoice with a balance due. And who said you won't get paid. The mom asked for the retainer back but may not realize the time you put in. I once had a client go elsewhere after I gave him his return but he paid me for my service and returned the next year. You go to a doctor, don't like his diagnosis so go to someone else, know what you still pay the first doctor or the collection letters start. Unless you feel like you messed up, you are entitled to get paid for your time. I have a real problem with professionals here that are so afraid of problems that they get afraid to ask for money that they are due. In this case I would keep copies of everything you were shown to back up your position, return the originals and keep sending monthly invoices for at least a few months. BTW if you invoice includes provision for late fees and interest then you can collect them to [at least in NY] And one final item, why are you discussing the situation with mom? even if she paid the retainer she isn't your client and you shouldn't disclose anything about the return to her.

No, but I had one last week to have his secretary ask about doing it. I told her, "No, he's not an employee. And you know that unemployment tax he bitches about? He'd be paying it on himself, too." Shut the conversation right down. I did tell her if she has to run copies of 1040-ES and send a check to IRS every week, IRS will gladly take them.

I've found the standing desk to be a great antidote for back pain and other joint problems. I also keep a bar stool and exercise pedals to be a great supplement when I've found myself standing too long. The key is to keep moving. I know we discussed this at length on another thread, but it's worth repeating. I only have one complaint, and it's related to certain charity & benevolence cases. I'm sure most of you have some similar situations to one degree or another. I know this sounds judgmental, but here goes. Most of the ones I handle are genuinely needy and have been beset by problems beyond their control, sometimes overwhelming life circumstances. They all do seem to appreciate the help. But there is a subset, whom I know are in genuine need, but I sometimes want to say something to this effect to them. "Your tendency to ignore requests for info, to furnish partial responses, and to put things off until the last minute are a part of the reason you find yourself in your present circumstances. Why do you refuse to learn that simple life lesson?" There, I've said it in the only place I feel comfortable saying it because I know most of you here understand the frustratrions. But I don't feel any better for having done so.,

Nah, I live on a farm. Got it covered. Just mooooove the yard back a little. Cows don't mind.

RitaB: Is the backyard getting crowded? Rich

That is the Rita I know and love. I know you are not kidding. Tom Newark, CA

....and then the success My most beloved and enormou$ client called to tell me that his banker is very impressed with his CPA. That would be me. I've had to figure out some stuff and explain some things, etc. If I was a cat, I'd be licking my shoulder right now

I'm with you. But I might hug them to get the right dimensions for the grave in the back yard. Just kidding.

Me calling client: Did you make estimated payments for 2015? (New client, so I did not set them up.) Client - somewhat haughtily: Yes I did, the information is in the packet I dropped off for you. Me: Do you think I would call you if the information was in the packet you dropped off for me?

No hugging went on. When I handed her the folder, I said "Here is a check for your Mother ($75 full refund) and here is a bill for you. She grabbed it, turned around and left. Never got time to introduce her to the back yard.

Friends think I'm broke because we save so much. Since I was 22 years of age I've been 100% commission or similar salary structure (like anyone who is self employed). It makes you consider the risks to that income and the uncertainty of your income stream.

The thing that I have noticed this year is that when I click my mouse to check a box, that the box sometimes won't stay checked, so that I end up having to click again and wait to see if the box stays checked. I haven't taken the time to keep track of which boxes. Since that is the only problem I have had this year, it's a minor annoyance compared to 2012 thru 2014

Way too many people live above their means succumbing to the constant barrage of advertising and envy of what others have (whether or not actually paid for). We've known for some time that we have lived quite a bit below putting as much into retirement as possible. As my husband is retiring the end of June, it was gratifying to hear the advisor remark that we must have been living below our means for years as it appears we are covered for 30+ years. My son was likely relieved when I told him that while he may end up choosing our nursing home, at least he won't have to pay for it.

funny - my secretary was just saying she has run out of niceness. I just hide in the back office lately. Even my dog has been reluctant to go see who's here.

It might be interesting as I did the work last year for final return of deceased father. Since that was not her return, I don't have to give her any of that information. Same situation last year with wrong codes on 1099's. Poor little rich girl who inherited all of daddy's retirement, pensions, life ins, etc; definitely needs an attitude adjustment. I wouldn't take her back under any circumstances. Jack is correct. I have nothing to say to them.

He could do a variation of this. He can set up a personal EFTPS account and then pay his estimated tax payments at the same time he pays employee payroll tax deposits. Diferent login, but the process is exactly the same. Plus he has a neat record of the transactions to give to his tax preparer at year-end.

I've actually completed a lot of work this week and it feels good. The last 2 weeks have been hell around here with one of my larger C corps in the midst trying to negotiate the sale of their business. It's been a lot of interruptions and I lost any motivation and momentum with my other work that has been piling up. Then this same client's attorneys started with the calls about the sale 2 days ago. I got on a roll with some partnerships and personals and now have only a handful that are in that haven't yet been worked on. Everything else is either waiting on signature forms or have been printed and are ready for pickup. Of course, there are still those that aren't yet in, and some new clients that I've agreed to accept at this late date that have yet to drop off. There's a wee pinpoint of light at the end of the long tunnel though! In other good news, I raised my prices this year by 10-15% and no one has complained. I've started giving a small discount to those that are using the drop box and mentioning it to those that chose not to. I hope that will encourage more people to use it in future. I should have done that years ago.

I first noticed with ATX 2012, and then with ProSeries since then, that updates can sometimes change the way a return calculates. And if I go back into a return and change something after I print the copies, it lets me change it, even accidentally. Way back in the dark ages I could mark a return complete in ATX and it took quite an effort to change something. I try, before e-filing, to look at the summary and make sure the refund still says what I expect it to. Then immediately e-file before something happens that could change what I have done.

Every one I pick up today, I say, "Oh, no, not you." I am running out of alternatives, and gonna have to do one of these eventually... So many incompletes right now. And I actually had a message yesterday from an out-of-towner who couldn't find his stuff and wondered if he had already brought it. I didn't call back. I'm not dealing with that. Maybe he will forget where I am and find another preparer.

Oh, she'll probably be introducing herself to the back yard. Figuratively and financially speaking. You did good, my friend.

I'm crying. If I say this to somebody, it's all your fault... tears running down my face, I swear.

Yes, I was raised to live this way. I thought 1970 was the Great Depression. No, it was just that my daddy socked away money so nobody would have to pay his bills later. I hope to do the same for my kids. If I can just get this last one through school...

You mean no bunny pops up to ask "Do you really want to check this box?"

"Me, too." I love how you put that "Nice" in quotation marks. I feel that. I really do.

Thanks for those comments FDNY and Yardley. I read this topic and thought to myself that without the "Advantage", ATX would really be an incomplete product, but I didn't want to sound like I'm bashing the product since I'm no longer a user. If it were true that their standalone product wouldn't calculate an out-of-state credit, that would be enough for me to consider other vendors' software. Users seem to accept that ATX takes functions away and continue to pay higher prices each year for a lesser product, and then have to purchase additional modules (like when the payroll module was split off) to have the same capabilities as in the past year, the restructuring of fees for additional users, plus the talk of added processing fees such as for the 1099s. It all adds up in the overall cost of the product.

I understand completely. That's why I'm so mouthy on here. Because I'm not with the clients. (Unless they really, really, really, push it.) Most of them don't. And the ones who really, really, really, push it are usually not sharp enough to catch the sarcasm. So I'm not sure if I feel better because I mouthed off, or if I feel better because they don't realize I'm mad. But I always feel better telling my colleagues on here, because you all get it. I have a "friend" who's been gonna hire me for three years. He asked a month ago if he could bring in his stuff. Of course, great. I've not seen him. He called yesterday. I didn't answer. When he calls today, I'm telling him, "Sure I can get it done if you bring it today." Actually, I'm telling everybody that calls today that. There is zero chance they will bring it today. They've not started getting it together. But the ball is now in their court. And they will drop it, as usual.

NECPA: Have your client open a new account that is just an IRA Account. She can roll the dollars out of the SEP-IRA account to this new account if she wishes to. Don't debate the client about if she can, and certainly don't worry about Wells Fargo. If she can make a IRA contribution, then into a new IRA account it goes. Sort out what to do after April 15th. Rich

Lion and Black Bart, back pain may be caused by staring up at a computer screen all day (and all night) that is too high from where you are sitting. (Or too low.) I worked in an office once where I got serious neck pains. Then I noticed that I was fine on Monday, a little stiff on Tuesday, and by Friday I was in serious pain. It went away over the weekend and started all over again the next workweek. I put two and two together and set the computer on a lower desk; never had it happen again. A man in our office would get such back pain that I would catch him rubbing his back against the doorway to relax it. I had to sit at his desk once and thought I was sitting on the floor. I adjusted his chair upwards and his back pain disappeared. Big offices actually have ergonomic experts come in to examine such things, and often all it takes is adjusting the angle from where you view the monitors and/or type Try it. I hope it helps.

I wouldn't believe a thing that Wells Fargo says without positive verification.

In my case I am on Win 7 Pro, I can't help the Win 10 conspiracy theorists So sorry

That's funny!

Two suggestions: arnica rub or BioFreeze. Both are fabulous.

I am so tired I almost broke my face operating a construction tool

I agree. Rollover the SEP-IRA to a traditional IRA. Then it's classified properly for new contributions. May be too late now but this is the proper way.

Would they do that to us? Absolutely they will and they wont give it a second thought.

Catherine: I will take any Maryland and Delaware Clients if you need to sell them piecemeal. I hope all of us feel much better on April 16th, or 19th, whichever day is sleep in day for you. Rich

It's my desk chair. I bought a more expensive one last time that's lasted longer, but the lumbar support is less support lately and the seat now presses the backs of my thighs. No time to get a new one, so been trying to watch my posture. And, I tried all the throw pillows in the house until I found one that puts the seat at the right angle. Also, found some reading glasses at the grocery store that work for reading, computer, and over the desk/client, so I don't lean as much. It still takes time to heal once the muscles start spasming, if that's a word. Being over tired makes it hard to maintain good posture, too. On Wednesdays, I'm at a biz client's site and have a crummy chair; usually have leg cramps on Wednesday nights. This getting old is hard work.

I should have quit when I said I was going to last night. Got the last bits of info for 3 years of SE returns and worked on them. Got 2013 & 2014 done & printed and then when 2015 error checked saying I had to do Sch C instead of C-EZ, I gave up. Today realized 2013 refund should be applied to 2014 balance due to decrease interest & penalties. At least I only have to reprint 1 page of each plus letters for that mistake. Still haven't moved all the 2015 biz expenses to the Sch C. Nap time. And then I get to watch what we call 'the singing' while I have supper. I wonder if I can just email a picture of the rash to my doctor? Don't have time for an appointment.

I can feel my red face!!!!! I first told a very nice client about a week ago that he would owe around $16k. He wasn't happy, but has the money to pay. Today, I call and tell him he will be getting a $5k refund. He's confused but delighted. I had reviewed the return twice, every screen. I looked at the return again. No Sch C activity at all, and it's a chunk. For some reason, I had toggled to keep the Sch C off the return. So then I have to tell him that, No! He DOES owe the $16k!! I feel like an idiot!! He was understanding but pretty shocked. I am totally done for this day. He'll like the fat discount I'm giving him on the fee for make for the roller coaster ride.

Insane is a good word for it. Since the 2012 debacle I took advantage of the ProSeries free offer to file extensions and the returns after 4/15 as I had 2 returns with 11 states that ATX2012 could not handle, a very frustrating time in our lives as we all know. I have purchased PS PPR for those 2 returns every year since and while I'm happy with the program I do like ATX better, maybe because I go back to the Sabre days and breaking up is hard to do. Now I'll have that song in my head all night.

Advantage costs $1,320?? Insane. I've noticed that credits have been calculating automatically on the last few returns I've done, but no way is it worth that type of premium. I've been a loyal customer of ATX for many years, going back to the Parson days. It may be time to at least test some of the other software packages over the summer.

1. Right or wrong, I quit cutting W2 forms apart unless I have to for paper filing. I run the whole form through the copy machine and just keep that. 2. It is sort of soothing to actually fire PITA clients rather than hope they don't come back. I do it in a nice way. $75 is what it costs to never have to deal with their crap again.

It was boggling my mind why people were wanting this also. I don't keep a paper copy of ANYTHING. Literally my entire office could get packed up and moved with my laptop - a zip drive and one box of files the size of a copy paper box (cost basis information). And I agree with the giving of the $75 back. If they need it so badly that they ask for it back - good luck to them. When they come back later with questions - good luck to them. I absolutely hate those tear away forms and I hate stapled, double sided 1099s. I RARELY if ever look at old forms - the info I need is almost always on last years return.

My original plan was to groom my assistant to take over more and more. he is going to be a great EA (studying for the SEE this summer) but as time goes on I am more convinced he doesn't have the stamina to be a sole practitioner. He'd do better as a #2 or #3 at an existing firm. So that brings me to selling. I may keep my hand in as an instructor (the state EA society keeps asking me to teach but I have no time to prepare those classes) and drastically scale back my personal practice. But this year,between the town trying to evict us (which looks like it is going to fail), and this eight-days-dead computer issue, I've had it. I refuse to go through this again. Don't worry, I'll stick around here; you can't get rid of me that fast! Hey, I might be able to travel and visit people.

Karma can be a fun thing to watch from a distance. Make sure you return ALL of the retainer. That way there is not even a tiny string of connection. Your peace of mind and relief at getting rid of a PIA is worth FAR MORE than the $75. If they ever call back, simply tell them you are not their accountant and have nothing to say. Karma will kick them, you can be sure.

I am furious; but would prefer not to be. I have decided to work up a bill starting with the retainer; then itemizing everything that I have thus far done on this return to save her mega dollars. The final balance will be return of the entire $75 retainer. Then I will add balanced owed for services rendered. They can pay it or not; but maybe it will shift the anger from me to them.

Thanks to all who replied. I took KC's advice and my own instincts and called the folks before ever looking at their information. I explained to them why I was calling and that it was for their protection for me to do so. They were more than happy to give me permission to review their material and prepare or fix any errors that I found. They were also appreciative of my desire to protect their sensitive information. I did find errors in both 2014 and 2015 that has an increase in a refund. I now will have another happy client added to my client base.

Terry, no way would I touch those returns without talking to the people involved. Those are not HIS returns to make decisions about, just because he prepared them. HE does not have a legal right to show them to you, or anyone else.