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I had signed up for the NAEA message board, getting daily summaries, some time ago. I rarely look, and have never bothered to respond. Well, I responded to one and let me warn you all to stay away from that group! First off, any response seems to reset your daily summary to an email with every. bleeping. message. posted - and I could find no way to reset that (ended up unsubscribing completely). Then, the board seems to be full of full-of-themselves persnickety nit-pickers who have NO concept of taking facts and circumstances and doing the best you can do with the information at hand. Stay here, where we fuss at each other in love, and understand that we're all trying to do our best for our clients, not trying to prove how we can out-cite everyone else. Jeezle louizle I love you guys and just got my nose rubbed in how much. And Rita - there are some folks over on another board who could use some of your hugs. Just sayin'!

Isn't that against the Geneva Conventions against cruel and unusual punishment?

Tom, what would you say to a family that is living paycheck to paycheck and is suddenly out of work? Suck it up?! I have never found the 10% penalty to stop anyone when they needed the money.

They have 3 years to return it all and not pay any taxes. They can spread the tax over 3 years if they don't intend to pay it back. It remains to be seen how this will work in years 1 and 2. Will they have to pay taxes and later amend if they pay it all back?

Yes, stay away from groups or service like that. My state society set up something similar last week and I didn't pay much attention thinking I could check it out more fully when time allowed. All members were automatically signed up with the default setting to receive an email for every post, and the director asked everyone to chime in with their favorite color to test out how the site works. I woke up the next morning to a very full email box filled with their one word answers. I had a momentary response of WTbleep, and before I'd had any coffee too.

This is stupid, stupid, stupid. How many of our clients are going to raid their 401k's and then get the shock of a big tax bill. And they are going to raid the account and the worst possible time, when the value of the account is incredibly low. Locking in losses forever, paying taxes on the money, and not having a chance to recover those losses or additional earnings. I cannot believe how incredibly stupid our leaders are sometimes. How will our population ever learn how to use these accounts properly when every time there is an economic downturn, the government basically tells the population to treat their retirement accounts like a piggy bank. STUPID, STUPID, STUPID. Off my soapbox now. Tom Modesto, CA

I now know 8 people (and 2 that I don't know personally) with the virus, 2 are over 80 and suffering at home as they were told they would be better off there. Each one's family is now infected. They are all from NYC. The last few days I work from 6am to 12, then after lunch I spend some time on the phone checking in on older clients and friends. Everyone is home when I call. I sense a lot of understandable anxiety, fear, and worry. But having a conversation helps to smooth things out a little especially since many people don't know what to make of this. I feel that staying in touch helps us to cope.

When clients call (which is not as often as they should) I tell them we should look at the cost of various sources of money. 401(k) withdrawals will cost them at their marginal tax rate, including their rate three years from now if they spread out the taxes; but could cost nothing if they can budget for repayment. Unemployment benefits are a VERY good deal now. Cash advances on a credit card can be pricey, but they should look at the rates (and not assume cash advance rates are as low as purchase rates). New options for SE individuals have opened up via state and federal governments, including unemployment benefits. Home equity loan &/or line of credit. Borrow from parents. Look at all possible sources of income and compare costs.

The unemployment boost of $600 per week, no waiting period, should be able to cover most of what is missing from payroll for a lot of those folks. That is $15 per hour for a 40 hour week on top of what they would normally get from their state. I am not heartless about this, but this situation is temporary and congress did something to take care of the massive layoffs. I can't agree with this one, no matter how hard I try to see the compassion that others do. It is long term damage to these people's financial health. We are just going to have to disagree (respectfully) on this one. Tom Modesto, CA

Tom...as tax professionals we obviously see the negative side to raiding 401k's. With that said, I agree with Max on this one. Desperate times call for desperate measures and some folks would probably be considered desperate for sure. Some will raid it, just to raid it though. Foolish but not much we can do about that. My 401K is now a 201k but I have high hopes that it will get back to it's high at some point in the not to distant future.

When I became an EA I signed up for the NAEA. You were required to be a member of the state affiliated group and every year I'd get a letter about their state meeting about 2 weeks before the event and long after it was full and signing up was impossible. The first year of that happening I thought about how I had only become a member 4-5 months prior so maybe it was a one-off. Second year, well that's odd. Third year I decided it had to have been intentional. I wasn't getting any mailings except that one when it was way too late to attend.

persnickety... placing too much emphasis on trivial or minor details; fussy......requiring a particularly precise or careful approach

Been there, done that. I still lurk/read. And, sometimes one of the cites is exactly what I was looking for. (Also, you can learn what speaker you might want to take a class from and what speaker you definitely would not!) But, NO sense of humor and no patience for us preparers who are trying our best, like you say.

Yes, that should be it. I did have that one that was totally messed up though. If you can't reconcile it, maybe you should ask the client for a list of the actual payments made each month, or the bills from the insurance company.

1. You file an unemployment claim with your state. 2. You do not need to be a wage earner with an employment history 3. These benefits are being paid with federal dollars 4. Your state's Employment Department will decide based on federal guidelines

If they have a 401k, they can take a loan and have extended repayment terms, and not have to worry about taxes unless they eventually can't pay it back.

My memory does not work well from tax season to tax season so I am always too nice the next year - especially with those that call and "ask are they done yet?" , "I have more info" - after they are done, etc.. so I started today putting an asterick by their name! for an increased fee...

Copied from the Journal of Accountancy: "The coronavirus relief bill signed by President Donald Trump late Wednesday contains, among its many provisions, several tax credits for employers who provide paid sick leave or family or medical leave for their employees who miss work for various coronavirus-related reasons. The Families First Coronavirus Response Act, H.R. 6021, passed the House of Representatives on Monday by unanimous consent and passed the Senate Wednesday by a vote of 90–8. Here is a look at its tax credit provisions . Payroll tax credit for required paid family leave Subject to certain limitations, the bill provides an employer payroll tax credit that equals 100% of the qualified family leave wages paid by the employer under the portion of the bill known as the Emergency Family and Medical Leave Expansion Act (Division C of the bill). The Emergency Family and Medical Leave Expansion Act requires employers with fewer than 500 employees to provide public health emergency leave under the Family and Medical Leave Act (FMLA), P.L. 103-3, when an employee is unable to work or telework due to a need for leave to care for a son or daughter under age 18 because the school or place of care has been closed, or the child care provider is unavailable, due to a public health emergency related to COVID-19. (Employers with fewer than 50 employees can be exempted from the requirement.) The credit is available for eligible wages paid during a period that begins on a date starting on a date within 15 days of enactment (to be designated by Treasury) and through Dec. 31, 2020. The credit would apply against the employer portion of Sec. 3111(a) old age, survivors, and disability insurance (OASDI) taxes or Sec. 3221(a) Tier 1 Railroad Retirement Act excise taxes. The credit is generally available for up to $200 in wages for each day an employee receives qualified family leave wages. A maximum of $10,000 in wages per employee would be eligible for the credit. If an employer claims the credit, the employer’s gross income will be increased by the amount of the credit (meaning the credit is not taken into account for purposes of determining any amount allowable as a payroll tax deduction, deduction for qualified family leave wages, or deduction for health plan expenses), and no credit will be allowed for wages for which a Sec. 45S family and medical leave credit is claimed. The credit would not apply to the federal government, the government of any state or any subdivision of a state, or any agencies or instrumentalities of these entities. Employers also could elect not to apply the new provision for any calendar quarter. The credit would not apply to the U.S. government, the government of any state or any subdivision of a state, or any agencies or instrumentalities of the foregoing. Employers can elect not to apply the new provision for any calendar quarter. Self-employed individuals: Eligible self-employed individuals would be eligible for a refundable credit against income tax for qualified family leave equivalent amounts. An eligible self-employed individual is an individual who regularly carries on any trade or business (as defined in Sec. 1402) and would be entitled to receive paid leave under the Emergency Family and Medical Leave Expansion Act if the individual were an employee. Wages paid under the Emergency Family and Medical Leave Expansion Act are not considered wages for purposes of the Sec. 3111(a) OASDI tax or the Sec. 3221(a) Railroad Retirement Act excise taxes. Payroll tax credit for required paid sick leave Subject to certain limitations, the bill provides an employer payroll tax credit that equals 100% of the qualified sick leave wages paid by the employer under the portion of the bill known as the Emergency Paid Sick Leave Act (Division E of the bill). The Emergency Paid Sick Leave Act requires employers with fewer than 500 employees to provide up to 80 hours of paid sick time through the end of this year if the employee is unable to work due to being quarantined or self-quarantined or having COVID-19 or because the employee is caring for someone who is quarantined or self-quarantined or has COVID-19 or if the employee is caring for children whose school has been closed because of COVID-19 precautions. (Employers with fewer than 50 employees can be exempted from the requirement.) The credit is effective for sick leave wages paid starting on a date within 15 days of enactment (to be designated by Treasury) and through Dec. 31, 2020. The credit will apply against Sec. 3111(a) OASDI taxes or Sec. 3221(a) Tier 1 Railroad Retirement Act excise taxes. The credit is generally available for up to $511 in wages (for workers who are quarantined or self-quarantined or who have COVID-19) and wages of up to $200 for other workers for each day an employee receives qualified sick leave pay. The credit would be available for up to 10 days per calendar quarter. To prevent double benefits, employers’ gross income will be increased by the amount of the credit (meaning the credit is not taken into account for purposes of determining any amount allowable as a payroll tax deduction, deduction for qualified sick leave wages, or deduction for health plan expenses), and no credit will be allowed for wages for which a Sec. 45S family and medical leave credit is claimed. The credit would not apply to the federal government, the government of any state or any subdivision of a state, or any agencies or instrumentalities of these entities. Employers also could elect not to apply the new provision for any calendar quarter. The credit can be increased by certain qualified health plan expenses of the employer that are allocable to qualified sick leave wages for which the credit is allowed. Self-employed individuals: The bill also provides eligible self-employed taxpayers with a refundable credit against income tax for qualified sick leave equivalent amounts. An eligible self-employed individual is an individual who regularly carries on any trade or business (as defined in Sec. 1402) and would be entitled to receive paid leave under the Emergency Paid Sick Leave Act if the individual were an employee." Some aspects of this will be tricky especially for my larger clients who already provide sick leave.

was I dreaming? I thought I read that spouse could file as single if husband gone for years... WI - community property state so claiming own income.. No children left Any insight? Read Pub 17, Pub 555 - anywhere else? Crazy? - well please do not answer that one.. Thank you, D

Calm down, everyone, and back away from the keyboard if you feel the urge to attack another member here. Tom was venting some frustration, and we're all going to have some added frustration or stress as we try our best to help clients that are in financial difficulty. This topic already has some valuable information and insight that others may find helpful. Keep the ideas flowing. We're going to need them.

I have a grandniece in NYC. She and her husband live in Queens, work in Manhattan. Not going to work at this time. They have a little 2 year old girl. So far, they're ok.

Same here, I am busy getting work out. I will send them to their bank for help. Thanks

But, it can be more or less if they had to pre-pay their 2019 or 2020 January premiums, or if there insurance company had to issue a rebate last year.

The catch in structuring as a loan instead of a penalty free withdrawal under this new provision, if for some reason the employee does not return to work and can not pay it back in that year, then the employee ends up with a taxable deemed distribution all in one tax year instead of being taxable over the longer three year spread.

There are all kinds of options during this crisis that are not normally available. I understand Tom's point, and would hope that the increased unemployment would enable most people to navigate this difficult time without going so far in debt that they will never see daylight again. On the other hand, trying to navigate what is available and how to apply for it is often EXTREMELY confusing, and the people who need the most helpful often lack the resources or education to be able to figure out what is available to them.

I don't have the time. But, if you could study the SBA literature and work your way through one, you could probably do lots more, lots more quickly. I did have one biz client message me this morning for Feb 2019 thru Jan 2020 income, payroll, and utilities to fill out an application with his banker.

What I am curious to see/find is how WC calculations are affected. WC wages currently include PTO. If some sort of exception is not in place or created (the emergency PTO excluded from "wages" for WC purposes, or the PTO is not really PTO) then this is something many business will have to consider, those with high WC rates.

Thanks for the warning Catherine! I have been getting the summary email, but have not had time to really look at it to see if there was anything of interest there (I would rather spend my time on this board!) and now I won't bother.

It is sad and worrisome to think that we may actually lose a family member or someone we know firsthand to this. I hope each of us are trying our best to follow the safety protocols to stay safe and healthy.

Talent lost too soon. And, it's scary seeing these people younger than I am dying or in ICU.

Sounds like you need to see the HOA agreement. If they are required to provide those utilities to all units equally, sounds to me it's like electricity for common areas, and does make the 90% test. YMMV.

I got the test message.

Thanx, Catherine. I'm working on the MA trust now, because I found nothing specifically postponing that deadline. Trustee will probably pay in April, also. (Otherwise, brother seems to get his hands on the money! He changed addresses for some statements last year.) Due 15 April -- filing and balance due. But, Q1 payment due 15 July and Q2 15 June. Right? I'll let the trustee know. I spent Thursday afternoon looking up various deadlines in 13 different states and was missing MA trust and CT S-corp pass-through ES. Then, I have at least three CT trusts left, but CT did move their 1041 deadlines along with their 1040. And, back to personal returns.

Hi, see my reply to this in the other thread. Yes, they can send all paperwork that way. Even photos.

I agree with Judy that it's interesting that you had this problem before and it resolved (temporarily) when you got a new computer. Can you think of any software, plugins, apps, browser plugins, anything at all that you may have installed or updated between the time that it was working as expected and when the site broke again? Antivirus/security applications, ad blocking plugins, etc could be blocking certain files required by the site to function properly, but that's just a guess. I think I remember that the problems you had before had a visual component as well... the site didn't look as it should have, but you didn't realize there was an issue with how the site looked until it was resolved and you were finally seeing is it should be. I could be wrong about that, my memory isn't the best. If anyone can help me find that old thread, it might be helpful too. For now, what browser are you using? Can you try using the site in a browser other than what you normally use? (If you use Microsoft Edge, try Chrome or Firefox, etc). Also try logging into the site while using Incognito mode, or Private Browsing.

Their payment should be column A less any APTC they accepted that would be shown in column C. However... Depending on the state and whether a state marketplace or the Fed marketplace was used, I can tell you that sometimes the Jan payment actually billed and paid may be the same as that of the prior year's policy if the application was done near the deadline because the Fed marketplace has to communicate the renewal information to the insurance co, and not all states' insurance companies are linked directly to the marketplace for the applicant to pay the premium at the time of application, so the insurance co may have assumed renewal of the existing policy at the 2019 rate and wouldn't know of any APTC agreed to at that time. If that is the case, the insurance co will give credit for whatever premium amount was paid and adjust the Feb bill accordingly, but the 1095 will show the Jan premium for the new policy that should have been paid. Do the yearly totals on the 1095 appear to be what the taxpayer paid on an annual basis? I've seen 1095s with errors that had to be corrected, but it's been a couple of years since then.

Thanks Gail. I actually had an IT person login remotely and check my computer yesterday afternoon into the evening. He used Teamviewer. He was able to see that the program would not allow me to create any efiles. We created a new file and got the same message "none of the forms in the file are eligible for efile" He also watched me go to EFile Manager and attempt to send a file that I had created the day before. He saw that it showed "unable to transmit error in file" even though the federal had transmitted at midnight the night before. He ran virus detection with BitDefender and no issues there. He found in a blog online a suggestion to re-download forms. So We also tried re-downloading all forms for the return using Support/Customer Support Utilities/Redownload forms in marked returns. That also did not work. In desperation, I logged onto ATX and opened a case and explained in detail my issues. Low and behold this morning I went into my program and was able to create an efile with the same file that it rejected yesterday, I then went to EFile manager and was able to send the return it said yesterday that had an error. I also transmitted the new file I created today. I am unsure what happened overnight but I feel so blessed that my program is now working. Thank you everyone for the replies to my desperate message!

Interesting. Thank you for sharing. When the standard deduction is so close I asked people if they donated to church, children with cancer, world vision, etc.

When the itemized is close like that, I almost always wind up checking to see what forcing the itemized will do since VA only allows you to itemize for the state if you do for the federal. Sometimes it is better to pay a little more on the federal to save a whole lot on the state. But I have not had the situation that you describe show up.

I know, I was shocked too. I've only seen one other client use the credit, and that was only very recently, probably caused by the TCJA changes to AMT thresholds.

I have never seen an AMT credit. I was beginning to think they didn't exist. Just rare as unicorns, I suppose.

@Lion EA The deadline for filing state income tax returns will be extended three months to July 15, matching a federal deadline announced last week, Gov. J.B. Pritzker said Wednesday. The postponement, made in an effort to alleviate the economic strain caused by the COVID-19 pandemic, will automatically apply to all individual returns as well as to trusts and corporations.

Illinois was extended yesterday.