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WARNING - Blonde Joke Follows - Do not read if you are easily offended. (KC or Judy can move it to off topic if they feel like it, but this string reminded me of this joke). There was a dumb blonde working at a doctors office. She faxed over some documents to a patient that had some sensitive information on it. Being dumb, she sent it to the wrong fax number. The person who actually received the fax called the dumb blonde and told her that the information went to the wrong number. The dumb blonde responded "Oh, thank you so much for telling me about this. Would you mind faxing it back to me?" Tom Newark, CA

Those clients provide a nice comic diversion during the day. I like to engage them in conversation while I sift through the envelopes, pulling out the one piece of useful info, and shoving all the boilerplate stuff & envelopes into the shredder. I always make sure the shredder is sitting where they can see it gobbling up the paper. The look on their face a while I'm talking over the noise of that shredder loudly grinding away is priceless.

Dear OCD Client: Thanks for the fax which included: five forms, one unnecessary cover sheet, seven pages of instructions for recipient, the facts about your Social Security Benefit Statement, and the page from your investment company that served as their mailing slip. Got every thing I need. Thank God, dunno how I would do your return without all this. P. S. Sorry I missed your call asking If I received everything. I was at Staples buying paper and ink.

I feel lucky with you. I have an old-fashioned fax machine with the ringer shut off. What really drives me nuts though are the folks on the opposite end of the chain who come in with a handful of envelopes.......none of them opened. Thankfully, we have an outside wood burner. Hubby takes all the junk to the incinerator.

I have a 4-in-1 machine. Second "distinctive ring" phone number on my main phone line ($10/mo.). I have a MagicJack second phone line ($23/year unlimited) that I use when things get busy. This has worked for me for 7 years now and the 4-in-one machine is still cranking along! Cost per page of printing, not including the paper, is $.002 page. Not changing anything till this machine dies. 7 years (I think that is 70 printer years) and going great.

Wow, I had no idea so much faxing was going on! I get three to five sheets a month from one contractor who sends his invoices to me to pay for my bookkeeping client, and then twenty sheets from this out of town tax client in February. That's it. I feel like the luckiest person in the world now.

At least they didn't fax 30+ pages backwards which results in 30 blank pages

That was yesterday.

from another forum (I have clicked on the link and it does go to accounting today): The company, enQ Inc., launched its service last Wednesday. “We call the IRS, and sell our place on hold to our customers,” said Andrew Valiente, founder of the Walnut, Calif.-based company. “This means our customers can cut their hold times when calling the IRS from hours to minutes. While there are similar existing services (for example, Lucy Phone and Fast Customer), both of these options rely on a return call from a customer service agent. We put our customers directly in touch with a customer service agent, without waiting for a return phone call.” http://www.accountingtoday.com/news/tax-practice/new-service-aims-to-cut-irs-phone-call-hold-times-77127-1.html?utm_medium=email&ET=webcpa:e6040074:993064a:&utm_source=newsletter&utm_campaign=tax%20practice-feb%204%202016&st=email

Of course Jack has a MagicJack

If the property is owned 20% by non-ira sources, it is a prohibited transaction. That is ugly. However, you might want to double-check the facts. I would think that if a client had gone to the trouble to set this up, he would have used an IRA administrator that specializes in this and would not have allowed a disqualifying set-up. Alas, maybe I assume too much, but it just seems strange that the IRA administrator would not have advised the client appropriately. Your client is prohibited from 'self dealing', also, so I assume he has a property manager that is caring for the properties and handling the leasing, etc. And of course, I'm sure none of his friends, children or family members are living in any of the properties! Good luck.

I agree: DANGER!! Will Robinson.

Danger...Danger...Danger. I think that you may be looking at a prohibited transaction. I am not an expert in this area, but I think I read that while an IRA may hold real estate in it, the Trustee of the IRA account must be the holder of the title, and the owner of the account cannot. And there can be no cash coming from the individual from outside of the IRA funds. This smells very bad. If I am right and this is a prohibited transaction, then the IRA funds used to make the purchase are deemed to be distributed in a taxable event. If the IRA holder is under 59 1/2 years old the early withdrawal penalty may apply as well. Check it out and be careful. Tom Newark, CA

Bahahaha do you know how hard it was for me to keep quiet?? He's in his 20s. I wonder if he thinks that date on his phone is the temperature.

This is why I use a fax service and get my faxes as PDFs. I can delete, rotate, rearrange and save just what I need. We use MaxEmail, in case you're interested.

no way would I let him double dip, refund your fee or cover his cost but not both. The fact that he even let another cpa look at your work and then didn't give you the chance to fix it says that he isn't coming back anyway. He lost faith in you or was shopping around. since the return was in your system the fix would have been 10 minutes but the new guy had to recreate the return first and then amend. Probably paid full prep charges to that guy.

My two cents... Tell him your long-standing policy. Offer the return of the prep fee (that you say you have no problem with) and the free return next year (IF and only if you would want him back a s a client). Tell him you would have prepared the amended return gratis but since he decided to go elsewhere he took that option out of your hands. If you really want him back and/or you really want to keep the parents as clients, you could offer to pay the amended return up to the amount YOU charge for those returns (when you do them). Or you can simply say you have offered what you believe is fair, and stop talking. Once you make that point (as they say in sales) the next person person to talk, buys.

If I am firing a client, but it is because I am moving in a different direction, then I will give a referral. If they are a PITA, its not my job to give a referral. When the client states: "What am I going to do?" Not my problem. I am upfront when the client comes in for the FIRST time. The first 30 minutes, *I* make the decision if I want this person as a client. It is *NOT* their decision. That helps a lot..... Rich

I tend to match my referrals out to the reason i am referring. If it is someone that I wouldn't mind doing the return, but they want a RAL and I don't do those, I send them to a competent, professional office that sends me referrals for more complex issues they don't have time for. If it is someone who wants to push the ethical envelope, I know the local preparers that will help them push, and send them that way. They might as well go to jail together - I just don't want to be part of it.

If it's somebody who's a top 98th percentile PITA, and they ask me who I'd recommend they go to, I tell them the hateful preparer who messes up returns and charges an arm and a leg to do it. That way, I get rid of the client, and I inflict pain on both him and the mean preparer. Win-win-win! Just kidding. Ok, not really.

I use Arial 14 pt. I don't have many state returns, so I have room, and I omit the tax bracket lines at the bottom. I don't know what the hell happened to the "your return will be e-filed". I have tried to get it back, and I'm not holding my teeth right. I played around with color and cursive font some, too. It's a girl thing. ATXLetterCoverSheet.pdf

@mcb39 -- calling my HOME office on a Sunday is, prima facie, grounds for being fired. Multiple times? Grounds for egging his house... or at least thinking about how much fun *that* would be!

I agree with this - getting an extra high fee makes you feel much better about putting up with guff and grumps. While I haven't found any one solution that works for all, pricing them out of the office seems most effective. One particular pest told me he'd leave if I went up again, so I promptly added $100 to his fee and he's now torturing some poor soul at Jackson-Hewitt. This post reminded me of something I still chuckle about. Years ago I had a doctor for a client. We were in my office going over his stuff and I was complaining bitterly about a PIA customer who'd just left. He grinned knowingly and said "Yeah, he's also my patient. I'd like to refer him and a few others to Dr. Kevorkian."

We have a template "fire client" letter that has options like "the direction our practice is taking" or "staffing changes" or "staff expertise" means we can no longer provide the service/attention your tax situation deserves and that you will be better served elsewhere. Be nice to the client, like it's not their fault. Like Catherine, we have a PIA client we couldn't outright fire because he'd been with us for so long so we kept raising his fees hoping he'd go away. He's still with us, paying us a fortune, so the pain is greatly lessened.

I had to do just that today. This was a client for several years. Last year they made an appointment and never showed up or called to cancel. This year he calls begging me to take him back. Last year they went to Liberty and he said it was like dealing with the Mafia. He weakened my resolve on SUNDAY, of all days and even at 4 times the prior prep charge, he wanted to come back. Today, I sent him a polite email stating that now that I had time to think it over, we would both be better served if he were to find someone else. I simply could not fit him into my busy schedule. He had forfeited that privilege last year. He returned a kind email thanking me for my time and wishing me well. You have no idea how much better I feel. I had a bad feeling about this apple and suggested he might want to take it to a VITA preparer since he has so many issues. Even my husband is glad that I got rid of him.; because he called four times on Sunday; left a long message as well as a long email. He was a little upset that I hadn't responded. All of the above suggestions are good and correct. Even Doctors have to refer out patients that they have issues with.

I have used several of the methods above. Additionally, I have told people that due to changes in my practice, they should expect to see their fee increase X% to about $Y (big numbers in both of those spots!), or that I will no longer be doing returns of type Z (whatever theirs is), or returns where we (we = me = my tiny company) do not also do the bookkeeping, or any number of other conditions. The key part is to pick a condition that you are absolutely *certain* they will walk away from in a huff. If their bugaboo every year is price, quintuple it! But usually some version of "I don't do this type of return any more" will do it. There is no wiggle room there. Also depends on how certain you are about ditching the bum (um, problem client). You can't trust their figures - ditch 'em fast! If it's just money - well, someone on another forum had a tale a few years back. Client drove him nuts; called constantly. Took the advice of "double his fee" and the first year still drove him nuts. Doubled again - not quite as nuts but not worth it. Doubled again (!) and became the guy's favorite client. The calls that were a royal PITA at $1,250/year were a pleasure for $10K a year. Client always paid quickly; they just wanted way more hand-holding than $1,250 bought.

Identify something unique about his return or his filing situation. Then just tell him you think he needs someone who has a focus in that area and it isn't something you are interested in pursuing. That's what I tell people with EIC. Or else you could just tell him you're fed up with his nonsense and you know he won't want to pay 4 times last year's fee for the same work. Either of the above is effective. Just be sure to slam the door shut on any possibility that you'll change your mind. He has 10 weeks to find someone, so he'd better get busy.

I didn't know you could merge taxable money with tax exempt money like that. You can buy real estate within an IRA / using an administrator but it's complicated and if he had taxable money (you write "from the client") involved there has to be a K1 for that portion at minimum. If it's all within the IRA - don't think a K1 would be required but I've never done this. Seems there is no taxable event until they withdraw funds - no? Just as if you borrowed money within the IRA plan - the borrowed / leveraged portion is taxable. you'd have to break down the profit / loss between invested capital versus debt capital. If you are adding borrowed funds a portion is taxable to the client.

The thing about electronic faxes is you learn to hate clients who fax things so they show up on your screen upside down! Fortunately, my new pdf software (Nuance Power PDF Standard) allows me to rotate all the pages of the pdf at once.

I don't EVER volunteer to send the paper returns to the IRS. I give them the envelope with the returns and ask them to take it to the postal office. If the postal office or the IRS looses that return, the client would not claim that I never sent it. I don't recommend drop box for our type of business.

I use eFax. And, it doesn't wake me up like my free-standing fax machine does when that client just has to fax me at 5:30 a.m. before they go to work -- and I just went to bed! Can delete, save electronically, &/or print. Send and receive. Got to pick my own fax number, too.

I have my scanner software set up so that the faxes are forwarded to an email address, specific for the fax machine. That way I can go online, view the faxes, delete the ones that are junk, save whatever I think should be saved, and print only the pages I need.

Lady dropped off Monday. She had no health insurance 2015. She calls today: Hold off on doing my return. I've been checking around and I'm getting health insurance so I won't have to pay that penalty. I had no idea she had a DeLorean Time Machine. Her Flux Capacitor is really going to pay off this time.

Hey is that tar hill or tar heel???? People are different here in the "tar heel" State of NC but not all are totally crazy. But then again.....

Ha ha! Just trying to help ordinary folks understand taxes better, and calming their IRS fears. All of the mods are EAs or CPAs. One guy is a tax lawyer. One helpful fellow who answers questions is an IRS agent. I've learned a lot moderating that site. Sometimes, really good questions are asked.

Abby: That Reddit site makes my head hurt.... How can you in any way shape or form moderate on that? I mean, we complain about stupid clients on this site, but... those posts and those questions? To avoid paying tax, and not willing to spend anything but a post on line to complete strangers and then believing those answers? I mean, there is an amusement factor, but, as I have to go home and bleach my brain... Rich

If you mess up, you make it right. The client has every right to consult whomever they want. Refund your original fee (for the return you goofed, it happens) and be as gracious as possible about it. No, you don't have to pay the other accountant, too, but if you feel you should, go ahead. You never know what good might come out of it.

I think it's still considered somewhat experimental, and only officially supported on their Nexus line of phones, as far as I know. I think that's why you have to request an invite, because it's still kind of in "beta".

I'm gonna leave that typo.

I bought a Nexus 6 the day they went on sale, and would really like to give Project Fi a try, but I live in the middle of nowhere, with almost no TMobile service and zero Sprint service. And the latency on my home internet is terrible. I wish I could have the internet connectivity that comes along with being near civilization, but without all of the people. Nexus phones are an Android line of cell phones that runs plain vanilla Android without any carrier or manufacturer garbage on them, and are supported by Google. Google partners with different manufacturers to make a new phone or two every year. Project Fi is a cell phone service and a Google initiative that allows your phone to switch seamlessly between T-Mobile and Sprint networks as well as Wifi. The price is decent too... Unfortunately where I live, if you want reliable service, Verizon Wireless is the only option. https://fi.google.com https://store.google.com/category/phones

I never have referred out a client. It is not my job to find them a new preparer. When I fired the bottom third of my client base several years back, I did it before the season started so they had plenty of time to do their own research. And there is only one other that I ever invited to leave. She was a real PITA and seemed to keep the whole office in a heightened level of anxiety whenever even her name was mentioned. She threw a fit when I said I was not interested in dealing with it anymore. Now I have a client base "to die for". I cannot think of one client that I would kick out right now. And like Rich, now it is completely MY decision as to who becomes a client. I have had three meetings with new prospects this year so far. Two will be clients, the other will not. I am grateful that I have arrived at that place with my practice. There was a time when I had to take anything that walked through the door. No more! But for the original post - I stand by my previous comment. Short, sweet and to the point. No explanation is necessary. If you do not want to deal with the client, just say that.

What is the thingy sticking out of the head? Is it a sort of client bs detector, maybe?

Saying no to a client is not the Kiss of Death. Rather, what will certainly lead to some issues in business is saying yes when you can’t deliver — or your gut has told you that the prospective client and/or their project is not the right fit. Although as a business owner, you don’t want to turn anyone away, sometimes it makes more sense when it comes to the welfare of your business to decline a business relationship at an early stage with a prospect if the relationship between the two of you is not mutually beneficial.

FINAL UPDATE ON CREDIT PAID TO OTHER STATES: After not hearing from the LDR Policy Division regarding my correspondence to them on Jan. 24th...it was to have taken 72 hours, I called today and was told my response would not be sent to me until 4 to 6 weeks. I talked with a rep. in the Policy Division and got absolutely nowhere. Her supervisor is to call me back within 2 to 48 hours. I'm not holding my breath. I was told by the rep. that it was the practitioner's responsibility to contact each state to see if that state was an eligible state for Louisiana's residents to be able to take the credit against income taxes paid to that state (even with the confusion of the law itself). After further researching the 2015 Act No. 109, I do feel more comfortable in what I have decided to personally do to protect my client's interest the best way that I can. At the moment, I have three out of state issues and have gone to each state and printed their instructions and forms to be used by their residents for the credit paid to other states. I will keep that information as proof in addition to what I discovered when researching Act No. 109. When Act No. 109 was originally introduced (House Bill No. 402) a new section: R.S. 47:33 (A) (4) read: (4) The credit shall be allowed only if the other state provides a similar credit for Louisiana income taxes paid on income derived from property located in Louisiana. The "Digest" prepared by the House Legislature Services and presented to lawmakers on the same instrument as the author of the original bill (on the same pages as the original bill but not an official part of the law) stated that: Present law authorizes an individual income tax credit in an amount equal to income taxes which were paid for the same taxable period to another state on income which is subject to La. tax. Proposed law retains present law and adds the following requirement for eligibility for the tax credit: (1) The credit is allowed if the other state provides a similar credit for La. income taxes paid on income derived from property located in La. THEN, AMENDMENT NO. 1 and AMENDMENT NO. 2 WAS INTRODUCED. Basically, Amendment 1 amended #4 above by adding a comma after "located in" and inserting "or" from services rendered in, "or" from business transacted in Louisiana. The key word in the above amendment was the word OR! What is "comical" to me is that the "Resume Digest" of ACT 109 (the last summary of the bill to tell legislators what they will be voting on) states that the wordage has commas without the word "OR", and has in the sentence the word "AND" which makes all of the issues necessary to be true in order to claim the credit. HOWEVER, FINAL BILL, ACT NO. 109 (OF THE 2015 REGULAR SESSION) HAS THE "OR" BETWEEN EACH REQUIREMENT AND NO "AND" IN R.S. 47:33(A)(4); therefore, that is the reasoning behind my conclusion I have drawn. It appears there was a screw up in the final bill in the way it was presented to legislators and the way the bill was written for the last time and voted on and made official......but that's their problem....not mine. That's my conclusion...take it with a grain of salt.

I do not want to work on your return this year!

Ok, you started it! Granddude pics for your viewing pleasure. 3 of the current 4 with one on the way in July.

NOW.........wait for the Great-Grandchild. We are expecting our second one in June.

No pics? Being a Grandpa is the best thing in the world!!

My office is 12 miles from my house, and sometimes that is not far enough. You all working out of your homes have my utmost respect. And sympathy. I used to come in and work with the office door locked on Saturdays. It was infuriating how people would still bang on the door. I gave up and now leave it unlocked. Life is too long to be shooting at people through the window.

I've had a few kids text my landline and wonder why they didn't hear from me. They didn't think anyone still used landlines. I was dying at supper tonight because my son was talking about the old days when people had to memorize phone numbers. I also got phones for my OIH that have a do not disturb button. I push it whenever I don't want them to ring and they get my voicemail. What I really hate is when clients show up and I still have my pjs on. I am really going to have to start putting on my exercise clothes first thing, instead of running downstairs to finish something up before getting ready for the day.